next »

[Dragonmaw]

Haha okay how about "wow that test MURDERED my GPA".

No, because rape is far worse than murder.

[Schoq]

no it's

maw ffs nobody would rather have been murdered than raped or have a friend killed rather than raped that's an incredibly stupid thing to say, you're really really stupid if you actually think that, holy fuck

you're basically saying rape victims would be better off dead

[The Monster King]

everyone gets hurt
everyone dies

not everyone has their physical intimacy broken by someone who wants to violently overpower you

[Impmaster]

Wait, how many people actually think rape is worse than death here? I certainly don't.

[The Monster King]

thats besides the point

[Schoq]

everyone gets hurt
everyone dies

not everyone has their physical intimacy broken by someone who wants to violently overpower you

Yes, I know and agree, and therefore some specific kinds of violence can't be treated as lightly as general violence.

Rationalizing "rape is much worse than murder" from there is just weird and pretty insulting though.

[airman4]

no it's

maw ffs nobody would rather have been murdered than raped or have a friend killed rather than raped that's an incredibly stupid thing to say, you're really really stupid if you actually think that, holy fuck

you're basically saying rape victims would be better off dead

Calm down ,no need to insult people like that

I think he means that at some point ,some people prefer to be dead than alive
Like finish some hill horse rather than lethim live and suffer

People have to find away to survive rape after shit , it's hard but yeah it's better than being killed because when you are dead , you don't come back
rape is always a chance to come back

Both crimes are awful anyway,one a bit more than the other.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Wait, how many people actually think rape is worse than death here? I certainly don't.

i've heard it expressed like this. most people have no problem saying torture is a worse crime than murder, correct? rape is a form of torture. so it's worse to experience rape than to experience murder. but this does not mean that someone who survives rape, or torture, would prefer to be dead or would rather have died. however, it might mean that they would rather die than experience it again

[s0]

Rationalizing "rape is much worse than murder" from there is just weird and pretty insulting though.

yes

tbh tmk's "everyone dies" comment kinda rubs me the wrong way too. of course everyone dies, but not everyone has their life violently and unwillingly ended. talking about different media portrayals of rape and murder is fine, so is talking about the different societal backgrounds behind these crimes. but comparing real life rape and murder in terms of how "bad" they are relative to each other just makes my stomach turn. :/

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

another thought on this (sorry if it makes your stomach turn CA, but i don't think it should be out of the bounds of discussion either):

i think there should also be a distinction between 'worse to experience' and 'a worse crime'. i think it's safe to say that rape is worse to experience than murder because it affects the rest of your life, whereas with murder there is no rest of your life, the pain, if there is any, is gone instantly. so rape certainly causes more pain than murder in the victim (friends and family are another matter of course)

but that doesn't mean it's a worse crime and that you should get more years in prison for rape than for murder, for various reasons. for one thing, rape is harder to prove than murder, there's often more uncertainty about whether someone is actually innocent or guilty, since usually there were only two people present at the scene of the crime, so it often comes down to one person's word against another whether there was consent or not. with murder, the evidence is more clear, one person is dead now. for another thing, murder is final, it's an absolute loss of something, rather than only a partial loss

so i think i'd have to say that rape is worse to experience than murder, and causes more pain, but that murder is the greater crime because it's more final. it's basically like asking: would you rather die, or lose all your arms and your legs? or, would you rather die, or go crazy? either choice isn't very appealing

[Dragonmaw]

Paul pretty much nailed it in one.

I'm not talking in relation to real life, I'm talking in relation to the mental imagery conjured from using such words. I would much rather have the imagery of being shot than the imagery of having my intimacy violently violated.

Not to mention that it's pretty tough to trigger someone with "man you really killed me with that joke" but "man you raped me with that joke" or similar regularly sends people into violent fits of self-harm. Given a choice between "rape" or "murder" in language or metaphor, I choose "murder."

Fucking cool your jets, Schoq.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

another thought: child molesters are treated worse than murderers, and more hated than murderers, even though the crime itself will get you fewer years than murder. this is primarily because it messes up someone's life so much, so that they are still alive but will have a much harder time with life, and basically be denied much of a normal happy life. i think an analogy with rape works here. so if you ask most people which is worse, murder or child molesting, most people would say the latter, even though the former is technically a worse crime in the courts

[Schoq]

Fucking cool your jets, Schoq.

*takes a chill pill*
OK sorry, but when you say something like that you really should explain that you mean in language or metaphor or as the act happens or whatever. People I've heard say that before (which is strangely common) usually mean it literally.

And I can't see how implying that having been raped is a loss of something more important than life is helpful for anyone at all?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

there are things that are more important than life. i don't think that's hard to understand. for example, i mentioned being dead vs being crazy (in a very extreme sense of crazy -- severe schizophrenia for example). i think i'd rather be dead than crazy to that degree.

if people never believed there are things more important than life, why would assisted suicides, noble self-sacrifices, hara-kiri, suicide bombers, or even just suicide over love, etc., exist? even if you personally believe life is more important than everything, you at least have to recognize that not everyone agrees with you.

[Dragonmaw]

There's the notion in death that you die unsullied, but that's beyond the scope of my argument.

The point here is that saying "man you really murdered me in that game" is completely acceptable, and "man you really raped me in that game" is nowhere even close.

[s0]

(sorry if it makes your stomach turn CA, but i don't think it should be out of the bounds of discussion either)

of course it shouldn't be out of bounds, it just makes me feel uncomfortable is what im saying.

also i actually agree with dragonmaw now that he has explained himself.

[Schoq]

@rinku
I didn't say that life is more important than anything, and what I said doesn't hinge on it

[Dragonmaw]

Have a seal to cheer you up.

[gggfhfdh]

@rinku
I didn't say that life is more important than anything, and what I said doesn't hinge on it

And I can't see how implying that having been raped is a loss of something more important than life is helpful for anyone at all?

well i mean you did exactly that like 12 minutes earlier

e: like theres no way you made that post without realizing the implication it carries
by aggressively disagreeing with paul's point you're saying that you believe having a life at all is more important than someone's wellbeing
which is in fact saying life is more important

[Schoq]

nope
I wrote the post before paul's popped up, it wasn't in reply to him. And I stand by it: I think such an implication does much more harm than good as a prevalent attitude (when there's already all that shit with unwarranted feelings of shame and being tainted and whatnot)