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[medieval]

This looks really awesome!

[Craig Stern]

I think Braves would work best as balanced fighters.  If you make the game just special cases, then you will have a hard time finding any balance, and players will be more likely to get stuck into the rut of just using one class.

If I may: the point of introducing a rock-paper-scissors dynamic is to make it untenable to just use one class, since it makes the team vulnerable to an opponent who uses a class strong against that particular class. It requires a team to select their members strategically and to deploy them strategically.

My point isn 't that all of the unit balancing should occur under the hood. But the less dramatic the differences are in match-ups between different types of units, the less players will have to depend on teamwork or select balanced teams in order to win. That's all.

About healing: perhaps the cultivator could grow a healing plant. That would require little skill on his part, but it will allow players to replenish health.

[Danrul]

Just a couple of ideas/suggestions pertaining to trying to be original in a general sense, but also trying to add more platforming.  Looking back, I'm iffy about a couple of them, but its a suggestion nonetheless.

Chief - Mayhaps the existing dash manouevre could be comboed with other abiities.  For example, there could be a shield charge, which knocks enemies back and/or stuns them.  This could be accompanied by an attacking dash, which is just a long lunge with heightened damage balanced by a long recovery (I've never been a fan of long windups, I prefer having vulnerability at the end after you've been able to get an attack out). There could also be a shield vault, a pole vault using the spear to get extra height or length, or possibly helping team mates by vaulting them using the shield.

Shaman - I'm really not sure about how you could implement the shaman, as he could have any number of abilities.  I am thinking abilties should be able to be cast as an effect for characters, and as an attack/general spell.  They can also be used to balance out the effects of the other spells.  It could be some simple things such as being able to use the elements, with Fire increasing attack power, or being used to creates barriers.  You could use earth, which could be used to increase defence and also create steps or barriers for getting places and blocking places off.  Air, which can be used to increase jumping abilties, and also to knock people back.
Water is a tricky one, but it could just be used to make an area slipprier, and to increase health.  Really, I think i could be more original with the attack spells, but im tired, so that can wait.

Brave - I'm thinking the brave should be a faster character, not as agile as the scout, but definitely able to sorta lead the battle forward.  For weapons they could use a Tomahawk, but I think they should melee rather than throw.  I think a tackle like the shield charge I suggested for the chief might work, but in my mind, the brave is a brawler, for want of a better word. 

Scout - I'm really liking the scout.  I see him as being fast and stealthy, but i think the cloak shouldn't be the end of the stealth path.  If he could climb trees and hide among the leaves, at the cost of being able to attack, it could open up new paths for the scout.  Also, maybe being able to lie down and crawl along the ground all stealthy like could be cool.  But, just an idea, he could hang onto the bottom of those leafy platforms and drop down on people, but that would require more of a melee weapon. 

War Drummer - Not much to add, but i think there should be 2 drum buttons, to make it less dull than tapping a single button over and over. 

Buffalo Rider - I'm thinking of this one as a tank, able to charge down along flat platforms, knocking people down.  But, I'm intrigued with the idea of the rider being able to flip off for a while, and attack with a small knife.  They'd be very vulnerable off the buffalo, but with fast, short range, semi strong stabbing attacks.  Of course, if they spend too long off the buffalo, said buffalo rampages, and starts damaging both teams.  I think that a war cry ability for the buffalo rider, mayhaps in the form of a buffalo bellow, could work too.

Cultivator - You've got the foundations there, i can't tihnk off too much more to add.  Maybe having vines that more agile players can climb ( Brave, Scout, possibly shaman) or zipline, and maybe using like a scythe or other gardening tools to attack in a pinch.

Generally, I think that you could class them TF2 style, with support and attack classes, as there aren't any purely defense classes as i can tell.  I was thinking that a rock thrower with a sling could be a more powerful, less ranged distance attacker.

THats enough from me.  I can now go on with my feeling like an ass with my suggestions.

EDIT:  I'd also like to help out with the game design and to a lesser extent the art.

[Nitro Crate]

Hmm...I have an idea about what to do with the brave.

Every class so far has something really unique about them.

However, the brave are kind of boring.

What if the brave are all ai controlled?
And can be given commands via the chief?

[Valter]

My thoughts:

First of all, I love this. This is awesome.

Now, this game seems like it will be quite like Star Wars Battlefront once it's finished. Not in gameplay, but in concept. That said, I think there are some things that could be learned from Battlefront. I think having unlockable classes will be most important.

Classes in Battlefront were relatively easy to unlock, only requiring 5 or 10 kills in a battle to use. I was thinking you could have specific paths for each "lower" class. For example, getting five points with a brave would allow you to use the buffalo rider. Five points with the cultivator would allow you to be a war drummer. The scout would upgrade to shaman. Getting a number  of points with all the "lower" classes, or a very large amount of points in one of them would allow you to become a chief.

The other option would be branching paths, such as scouts being allowed to be shaman or rider, braves being allowed to become rider or drummer, and cultivators becoming drummer or shaman.

Drummers, chieftains, and cultivators should all get points when a unit under their leadership bonus gets a kill.

The "lower" classes shouldn't become useless once you unlock the "upper" classes. The super battle droids in Battlefront tend to be the best choice for me, even after I unlock the droidekas.

You should include the buffalos, that's a really great idea. They could trample plants that enemy cultivators make. Also, you could make it so that the warrior just gets knocked off the buffalo when the buffalo dies, and then the warrior fights on as a weakened brave.

Shaman should be the ones that summon spirit animals for other units.

I didn't quite understand how you described the cultivator. I think that they should be used for creating traps or healing units, only stationary devices. There's already several classes that do unit buffs (drummer, chief, potentially shaman).

The scout stealth ability should leave a noticeable black outline around the scout, with the rest perfectly mimicking the background. It make the scout nearly invisible when standing still, but easy to notice when moving. The other option is only allowing stealth mode while the scout is stationary.

The chief should have at least two "bodyguard" braves that stay near the chief and only attack enemies within a certain distance of the chief.

Braves should definitely stay. "boring" or not, there needs to be a simple run-in-and-beat-everybody-up class. In Team Fortress 2, the heavy was a "boring" class, since it's just a big guy with a chain gun, but it's still necessary for balance. There needs to be some standard brawn class that the drummers and shaman buff.

[Xion]

On health;
Maybe rather than having health as a number or bar or some such, have health be perhaps cued visually and behaviorally. For instance, when low on health they might have a bloody sprite and some abilities lower, like jumping height, attack power, and such. But you could also balance this with heightened other abilities, such as more effective stealth for the scout, higher attack damage for the brave, more effective drumming, a higher run speed, etc. (the idea being that, in desperation, you get pumped and can do crazy shit) and combine this with regenerating health as well as a healing ability.

The health should only regenerate on its own maybe when standing still, or when an enemy is not on-screen, and would be augmented by the amount of allies around, so regrouping would be a necessity after a losing fight. At the same time, you could also team the shaman up with another class and have him heal them without needing to flee, or strategically plant health-fruits around.

As for why to have the sprite change rather than a number, I think it would be to make it more of an immersive experience. Rather than looking at a number or a bar and saying "Oh, I can still take a few more hits before running away" or "I can one-shot that guy easily", it would be more of a player-by-player basis of when to act; seeing a bloody character won't necessarily mean they're going to be an easy fight, and an injured brave might even have an advantage over a buffalo rider, since his attacks will take off a huge chunk of health, and bring them down quickly. Likewise, just because you're battered and bloody neither means that you can press on for much further nor that you're of no use. Should the scout retreat and recollect himself to regain his mobility and survival time, or stick around and keep fighting, taking advantage of his virtual invisibility and increased rate of fire at increased risk of death?

I don't know, just an idea.

[Valter]

I think a combination of health bar and sprite-changing would work best. As was mentioned before, arbitrary or unknown variables would probably detract from the experience. Getting a steadily more injured avatar would be cool, but I think you should also be able to see how close you are to dieing.

[salade]

When did the thread for this project start?

I think you should also be able to see how close you are to dieing.

I agree, but the trick would be not seeing a health bar for the other person, which is a bit of a given. the important thing here is to have a specific animation when a player gets hit so you don't have to guess. Also, health shouldn't just affect the player sprite, but also the spirit animal.

Buffaloes should be more like vehicles than a class. That way they would have an excuse for not being so nimble. for instance in the mockup we already have it would be nonsensical to see a buffaloe running around in a tree, but it wouldn't work to limit a class like that.

A gameplaymode should be a battlefield type command point capture. the dynamic nature of that mode would help with the limited one direction to the enemy that a 2D multiplayer game always has.

It needs another level than just the forrest. Mayan level anyone? or a plains level? I feel a little guilty about not being able to draw it myself so ignore this if you want...

just my thoughts on this awsomeness.
If there is anything that would be most deft at helping with, it would probably level design, but its a bit early for that.

[Xion]

Yeah I guess complete healthbarness could alienate some players.

Ah, yeah, more level ideas could be:
Temperate Forest (Pictured), Dense Jungle (With Jaguars and Monkeys, split by a waterfall), Mountain (perhaps a mountain on either side with a valley in the middle), Plains (where the Buffalo would be at their peak in usefulness), A River Gorge/Canyon, and a Desert Plateau (The opposite of Mountain, with sheer cliffs to either side and a huge plateau in the middle, with secret caves running through it.)

And CTF remains my favorite game mode ever so it's gotta have some o' dat.

[Willows]

"the map will transition symmetrically through environments in an order like: homebase->forest->mountainy area->desert->middle forest and then flip"

Ninja haxx. Quoted from the "show us your pixel art" thread.

[William Broom]

That would be a pretty big map, wouldn't it?

Also, if I were you, I wouldn't get too stuck on straight horizontal levels. To make the game more tactical, you'll want to give players several different routes on different levels.

I suggest some kind of snowy level, either a winter forest or a mountain peak or something.

[godsavant]

In the tradition of promising indie games I like, here is a fanart.


Guess which class I'm looking forward to playing.

[Loren Schmidt]

That's cute, Godsavant!

This is quite the endless flood of suggestions. There are some really good ideas floating around. I'm overcome by an insatiable need to see little Native Americans running around and sticking each other with spears.

Also, if I were you, I wouldn't get too stuck on straight horizontal levels. To make the game more tactical, you'll want to give players several different routes on different levels.

That's a really good point, Chutup. A squarer, nonlinear map can be just as big as a long, linear map. But it makes defense and offense a lot more interesting and varied. It also requires less running around to get from place to place.

[michael]

i had orgasm.

[The-Imp]

In the tradition of promising indie games I like, here is a fanart.


Guess which class I'm looking forward to playing.

Scout?

[Xion]

Oh man if there were ever a game for which I'd dedicate crudely drawn MSPaint art this is it!

This is who I'll be I promise you.

Scout?

I don't get it what is that (from)?

[andy wolff]

@allofit: 

[The-Imp]

Scout?

I don't get it what is that (from)?

The Scout from Tf2.
 

[JLJac]

[William Broom]

Looks a little too big if you ask me. And those plains are going to be massive choke points.