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[Glyph]

Even if I approach it, the demo wouldn't really be representative of the entire game in the areas it encompasses, because it's missing some vital systems like shops and other things I haven't mentioned as of yet. That's why I've been putting it off -- but I definitely need some feedback from players as well! With that being the case, I'd like to have the demo out soon, so I will probably tackle the pause menu and add a few more levels to the mix and then that should be that. I didn't mention it previously since I'm shaky on specifics/commitment, but if I had to estimate then I'd say the demo should be ready in about a week

[Rebusmind]

Looks so pretty and fun, will definitely keep an eye on this project.

[oodavid]

I love that bear! Just watched the youtube gameplay video, the mechanics look really snappy and gripping

[Tuba]

That video sold me the game, great job, looks pretty fun.

Looks a little repetitive thought, that's probably because it's still in development but, just something to keep in mind

[Glyph]

Looks a little repetitive thought, that's probably because it's still in development but, just something to keep in mind

Yeah, I got the same levels a few times in the video. This is because I only have 17 level layouts so far, and no variance in levels between areas yet. Actually, with that number in mind, I actually had very poor luck in the video and got the same levels too often -- I'll eventually make it so that once a level is seen on a playthrough, it won't be made again. Also, I'm going to be making a lot more levels in the next few days, and those area-specific ones.

[mike_w]

Are the levels fully authored but selected randomly?

[tieTYT]

... I'd like to have the demo out soon, so I will probably tackle the pause menu and add a few more levels to the mix and then that should be that.

Interesting.  Why not "continuously" release "working" versions of the latest?  That's what I'm doing with my game.  My latest "release" occurred when I made the loot explode away from the enemy when you kill them.  Very minor change.  Looking around at other devlogs, it seems that I'm in the minority here.  Most release playable versions infrequently or not at all.  I'd like to understand why.  To relate it back to your game, I'm sure people could still give valuable feedback without being able to pause. 

Hope this doesn't come off as pushy, I'm just trying to understand. 

[oyog]

This looks delicious. Definitely keeping an eye on this. 

[Glyph]

Are the levels fully authored but selected randomly?

Yes and no. Here's what a level looks like in code to explain things a bit more:

Code:

global.levelmap =

   "        ?     #
      @       1  X#
    T-XX   XXX-T-X#
    L [m\\\mX] L X#
    L X\\\\\X  L  #
    L2 \\\\\  2L p#
    XXX\\\\\XXXXXX#
    XXX\\\\\XXXXXX"

The general layout of the level will always be the same if this level is picked (though it could be flipped horizontally), but the \ areas are randomized minivaults that connect to their exits. Not every level has a minivault in it though, but it helps vary the ones that do. the @ is where the player starts and the 1s and 2s denote enemies (of varying tiers). Lastly, the ]s and [s are possible arrow traps (their chance of spawning increases with dungeon level). So, it's a semi-random system.

... I'd like to have the demo out soon, so I will probably tackle the pause menu and add a few more levels to the mix and then that should be that.

Interesting.  Why not "continuously" release "working" versions of the latest?  That's what I'm doing with my game.  My latest "release" occurred when I made the loot explode away from the enemy when you kill them.  Very minor change.  Looking around at other devlogs, it seems that I'm in the minority here.  Most release playable versions infrequently or not at all.  I'd like to understand why.  To relate it back to your game, I'm sure people could still give valuable feedback without being able to pause. 

Hope this doesn't come off as pushy, I'm just trying to understand. 

It's just a matter of preference. If I were playtesting a game then I would personally like demos to come out in leaps and bounds. The same thing applies to, say, TV shows or book series: some people watch/read them as soon as they're available, and some people wait 'till they're concluded. It shouldn't be long before a demo either way, though.

[JobLeonard]

Are the levels fully authored but selected randomly?

Yes and no. Here's what a level looks like in code to explain things a bit more:

Code:

global.levelmap =

   "        ?     #
      @       1  X#
    T-XX   XXX-T-X#
    L [m\\\mX] L X#
    L X\\\\\X  L  #
    L2 \\\\\  2L p#
    XXX\\\\\XXXXXX#
    XXX\\\\\XXXXXX"

The general layout of the level will always be the same if this level is picked (though it could be flipped horizontally), but the \ areas are randomized minivaults that connect to their exits. Not every level has a minivault in it though, but it helps vary the ones that do. the @ is where the player starts and the 1s and 2s denote enemies (of varying tiers). Lastly, the ]s and [s are possible arrow traps (their chance of spawning increases with dungeon level). So, it's a semi-random system.

So templated.

Have you thought of making sub-templates for even greater variety? So you could designate, say, a 6x6 area wherein you would fit a random specific set of 6x6 templates?

[mike_w]

Yeah, I agree! I think you could implement something like Spelunky where there are a set number of template "chunks" (each of which is authored) and arrange them however you see fit, that would add a lot. I guess my worry is this format doesn't really appeal to either "side" when it comes to platformers. Fully-authored maps are linear but a lot of enjoyment can come from mastering the maps, or learning their secrets, but they never change so you know what to expect every time. Procedural maps, like in Spelunky, you can never learn a map layout, so you have to learn the systems of the game. This is more in-between, so I can never know what I'm going to see exactly but I also know I'm going to see something pretty specific eventually. I don't know, those are just my sort of cloudy thoughts, I guess. I wouldn't normally put as much thought into this but I think what you have so far is really cool, plus I really love the little bear dude.

[Glyph]

Some progress on the pause menu. Actually equipping stuff is my next goal.



Everything is placeholder though. Lith will probably help me make it look nicer when he returns, but 'till then it's my crappy art all day, baby.

I also implemented 27 more relics today. Lith drew the first three, and the rest are, again, placeholder:



So now there will be some more variance in the relic department as well.

Yeah, I agree! I think you could implement something like Spelunky where there are a set number of template "chunks" (each of which is authored) and arrange them however you see fit, that would add a lot. I guess my worry is this format doesn't really appeal to either "side" when it comes to platformers. Fully-authored maps are linear but a lot of enjoyment can come from mastering the maps, or learning their secrets, but they never change so you know what to expect every time. Procedural maps, like in Spelunky, you can never learn a map layout, so you have to learn the systems of the game. This is more in-between, so I can never know what I'm going to see exactly but I also know I'm going to see something pretty specific eventually. I don't know, those are just my sort of cloudy thoughts, I guess. I wouldn't normally put as much thought into this but I think what you have so far is really cool, plus I really love the little bear dude.

I definitely like the Spelunky style, but I think it's just that -- Spelunky's. I don't think the same design sensibilities that went into Spelunky with that generation system in mind would apply well to this game. Levels hardly get much bigger than 13x8, and a big point in the design is making them compact (some still need to be more compact, even). This is simply because the best combat scenarios happen in closed spaces with enemies at claustrophobic distances. More pressure means more pivotal decisions (to a point, anyway). Even minivaults, at only 5x5, are hard to fit into a level while still keeping it 'tight'. So I think most levels need this level of control as a necessity.
All that being said, I might try out a system like Spelunky's in more... 'corrupted' areas of the dungeon

[oodavid]

Some progress on the pause menu. Actually equipping stuff is my next goal.

Shouldn't that be a PAWS menu?

[Quarry]

[Glyph]

More work on the PAWS menu  



As you might be able to see at the start of that gif, Demigods can always see every level map due to being omniscient and whatnot. This slightly makes up for their abysmal starting stats. They also appear to start with ERROR CONSOLE power. I might have to cut that one, on second thought.

Getting closer to a demo -- just gotta do an options menu (for gamepad/controls config) which may take me one to two days depending on my motivation. Then I have to work on more levels and I think I will be in a good spot. Stay tuned!

[mickmaus]

I also implemented 27 more relics today. Lith drew the first three, and the rest are, again, placeholder:

dang
That is a lot of thing. What sorts of things do they do for you?

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

thus is like, my favorite thing on tigs. you show wisdom and grace about the rl genre.

[Glyph]

Okay, it took me the better half of a week, but save for some features later down the road, the pause menu is now finished



I made a seperate config program that you can use to bind keys and make sure your gamepad works. I was initially using GM's built-in joystick commands to handle everything, but it was a headache because there was no 'pressed' and 'released' detection. You better believe I had to do it manually. However, even after getting all that done, I realized that LT/RT on a standard xbox controller get bound along the same axis, which is fine except when both are being pressed at once (in which case it is indistinguishable from neither being pressed). "Big deal", right? Well, since my *Perfect Control Layout Vision* had LT as duck and RT as run, and the slide is something you can only perform by hitting both at once, it was a big deal. So I had to switch to an external joystick handler, and decided on XInput. Even it was missing press/release functionality for sticks and triggers so there was still some manipulating to do, but it solved the insurmountable trigger issue. Sadly, I think XInput only works for specifically xbox controllers, but I'm going to have some people testing it later to figure out more about that.



You can also bind the keys in-game from the options menu. I might have gone overboard on a menu that most people will only ever have to interact with once, but it's also a very important thing to have around. Bah.

Now I just have the easy stuff left before the demo is ready. Making levels and one more enemy I forgot about (fifty points if you guess which one. Points hold no monetary value and cannot be converted to currency at any time). So one to two days before it's ready, I estimate.

dang
That is a lot of thing. What sorts of things do they do for you?

The selection is kinda generic for now, and once they get their actual graphics there will probably be a lot more variance/flavor in designs. But relics can affect pretty much any stat. Here are some of the things that those relics can boost/lower: hover time, cast speed, attack recovery, attack damage, magic damage, maximum health, maximum mana, gold bonus, status resistance, elemental resistance, strength/dexterity/intelligence, and probably some other things I'm forgetting. The stats they give you are specific, not randomized, so the aim is to have a lot of them (but not so many that each doesn't have a unique benefit in its tier).

thus is like, my favorite thing on tigs. you show wisdom and grace about the rl genre.

Hah, well I've certainly played enough of them! Games like (obviously) Spelunky,  (to an extent) NetHack (its design is pretty erratic), and definitely Dungeon Crawl are my inspiration. That's just talking RLs though, influences from games in other genres like [insert Treasure game here] or the Souls series are probably there a little too.

[Quarry]

SPIDERS

[Glyph]

Nope!

Looks like no one is going to collect on this opportunity for glorious golden entirely meaningless Points!

Anyway, I finally added in restarting without having to boot the game up again. That's probably important.



Oh yeah, and just because you have a spell doesn't mean you have the wits or speed to cast it well. Not if you're a 1-Dexterity 1-Intelligence Berserker, anyway. Of course, it also helps not to try it in front of dangerous enemies.