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[Christian Knudsen]

@Christian
I haven't play fully but from the premise it make sense it is the way people describe it, and in fact even in low review it show it works, just not as the reviewer expected (aka traditional entertainement), it's more in line with some literary tradition than the typical high stake mainstream narrative.

Sounds like I wasn't completely off with the visual novel comment, then.

[Alevice]

I know it is not that serious, but I actually dig that idea. For those that were to participate I would actually recommend agaisnt playing Sunshine (owning it is a different story), if only to not povride any sort of bias/influence/counterinfluence from it, and start from a blank slate

[Nillo]

Yeah, it may sound like I was being sarcastic but I think a jam like that would be entertaining to see.

It doesn't have to be about house cleaning, either, just doing some mundane work while a greater conflict happens in the background. Many people can relate to a scenario like this so it could be a very immersive experience.

[Schoq]

aka playing medic

[gimymblert]

The sunset jam, you read the devlog and comment though

[gimymblert]

http://tale-of-tales.com/tales/BAP.html

[DanglinBob]

I had a booth next to ToT when they debuted The Path for the first time... I believe it was GDC. So long ago, sad to see a fellow old timer give it up.

[starsrift]

Sunset lacks a narrative hook to pull potential players in. All I know about the game is that you're a cleaning lady in a South American country in the 70's and there's a revolution going on outside, but you're not actually really involved with that in any way. It's just backdrop.

Am I the only person on the planet to whom this sounds absolutely intriguing and exciting?  

I get that it could be executed better in-game, but imho the premise itself is absolutely brilliant!

You're not the only one, I'm sure, but to me it does not sound exciting at all. There's at least 4k other people who think like you do.
I don't have anything against narrative games, and in fact I quite enjoy them. But the setting and main character - as well as the visual style, which is just a personal foible - put me off of it. Why the 70's? Why a cleaning lady? None of this is apparent or a good hook to make me want to buy a game. Apparently, I'm far from the only one.

[gimymblert]

but then why paper please is successful? since when shufling boring paper is fun?

[gimymblert]

[starsrift]

but then why paper please is successful? since when shufling boring paper is fun?

Papers Please spread very much by word of mouth, based upon the moral quandries you face. It's almost the exact opposite of a narrative game, in that respect - because you can't detail a narrative game too much or you spoil it for the next guy. Adventure and other extremely linear games have always had this problem - games spread most primarily by word of mouth, and they repress your audience from sharing stories with each other and thus encouraging each other to try different things and become excited about the game. At least with RPG's you can talk about epic fights or amazing skills or builds without ruining the story. This is very basic marketing. You cannot enjoy that viral appeal with narrative games, you instead have to try to market it in other ways. I assume that ToT and their hired firm did everything they could in that respect, and I wouldn't make the generalization that the failure of the title is due to lack of marketing, even if that's what they suggested in their blogpost.

The only generalization I feel comfortable making, cruel as it is, is that good games will find their audience.

[gimymblert]

But what's good? goat simulator?

I think good is useless as a concept for market. Fitness is a better term. And they did find an audience.

I think the problem is create a market aka create awareness and fitness. Game are full of thing that are not exciting like epic fight and builds (they truly aren't ask your parents or grand parents or the art snob) that only speak to one market which is well aware to where they can find it. On contrast other people who might be interested in aren't aware, its slowly changing but more tapping into the lapse gamer who grew out of explosition and epic fight and open minded gamer who like different experience or new partition of game convention. The other people know where to find books to have the same kick and book are a big industry that is varied enough to emcompass awareness of big epic fight + literary diversion ala sunset.

[Armageddon]

Why are you blaming the market? The commercial game market has never been this open before. They made a bad game and they spent too much money on it and they had horrible marketing and now they're closed.

I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. You're making so many assumptions and accusing gamers/consumers of only like one particular type of game. You're saying there's no place for Sunset at the moment, well there is, it's already found that it's place is extremely niche. But games like Gone Home and Papers, Please and Braid and so on are actually fun and nice to play and don't talk down to your intellect as you play.

[gimymblert]

I'm not blaming the market, i'm highlighting its structure and making fun of one instance of good that isn't universal.

I haven't say they haven't find an audience (see 2nd line), you did!

I see nothing in sunset that talk down to your intellect, maybe that you might not get all the reference, which is more a problem of culture mismatch than anything else.

Gone home and braid are super simple story however, even paper please isn't complex even though it has more nuance than the previous two. Sunset is a bit more complex.

[Alevice]

i still think it was more of a case of poor marketing. i serously had no idea this game existed until recently, and i am familiar with tot games

[s0]

i serously had no idea this game existed until recently

same

welp the thing is, i dont really read gaming news sites (keeping up with new music is enough) and get most of my gaming news through osmosis either from tig* or from friends. so i guess even tho sunset got coverage it got no word of mouth hype for whatever reason and so didnt reach ppl like me.

*i know there's a tig devlog but i missed it somehow. i only check the devlog section like once a week.

[Cobralad]

it was on a effin tig frontpage for like several years you dongolings

[s0]

i havent read the tig frontpage in years lol

[Alevice]

same. most of my gaming news is just rps tho

[valrus]

When the announcement came, I asked myself why I hadn't bought it, since I knew about it (mostly from RPS, I think), and might even be that core audience they were looking for. (Well, the price was a reason, but why hadn't I wishlisted it in anticipation of a sale?)

I think in part it's because the game lacks an essential emotional ingredient.  As they say in the devlog, there are games that don't "focus on action or competition", but I don't think the counterbalance to that tends to be a "compelling story".  I think the counterbalance is aspirational fantasy: the game having someone the player wants to be, or something they want to do, or somewhere they want to go.  In most games the aspiration is something straightforward like "Be the biggest badass!" or "Be a brilliant problem solver!", but even in the absence of these there's often some aspirational fantasy of being respected, effective, or independent.  People will do all sorts of "chores" in a game if it supports an aspirational fantasy like "Own your own farm!"  (Hell, when I'm sufficiently overburdened with work and stress, "Go for a long drive through the countryside!" is aspirational in its own right.)

This isn't saying that games have to be bare and cynical wish-fulfillment, just that a dose of that can be the thing that gets the player to "buy in" enough to appreciate everything else about the game.  Sunset appears to be about a person in an unpleasant (but not excitingly unpleasant) life situation, doing menial tasks, unable to explore the world beyond a small space, and unable to affect the greater course of events.  You don't appear to be respected, effective, or independent.  It's striking how few aspirational bones are thrown.  I can appreciate that aesthetically, but it didn't get me reaching for my wallet.

(Widespread acclaim could also have gotten me over the wallet-opening hump, but it didn't really have that either.)