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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesIGF Winners announced
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Author Topic: IGF Winners announced  (Read 12114 times)
Zaphos
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« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2009, 03:32:17 PM »

Paul -- It wasn't a 'talk' really, it was a brief statement at the start of the IGF awards ceremony.  It's on the front page of tigsource right now, so you can watch it if you like.
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deadeye
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« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2009, 05:17:08 PM »

You guys know that nobody said they wanted indie games to stay obscure or become more obscure, that's kind of obvious.

I was just foolin around, I'm sorry Embarrassed
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Mipe
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« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2009, 12:35:28 AM »

Eye of the beholder.  Blink Everyone has subjective view, be it the definition of "indie", game development topics in general or how much a certain game sucks/rocks. If everyone cared about what -everyone- else thought of them, we wouldn't get anything done. At all.

Can we move along now?
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c-foo peng
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« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2009, 02:55:47 AM »

I was quite irked at some of the IGF results (not naming any names, but I'm sure you can guess). This led me to compile a grouping of judges in order to better understand what sort of people are making decisions about "the future of indie gaming" (OK, not really, but it's more dramatic if I say so).

IGF JUDGES BREAKDOWN

Game Developers: Standard Industry
11

Game Developers: Indies
14

Journalists
15

Other
3

FINAL TALLY

INDIES: 14
NOTINDIES: 29

Oddly I feel better about the results after trying to wrap my head around this.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 03:00:16 AM by Sifu Peng » Logged

ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2009, 08:28:46 AM »

At least that's better than previous years. Indies form a higher portion this year. Still, about a third is a very small portion, two thirds are either mainstream games developers or mainstream games journalists. Back around 1999 or whenever it was that it started, it was 100% mainstream judges. So a third is a big improvement.
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Mipe
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« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2009, 10:45:12 AM »

I believe players should be the judges, not developers. After all they are the audience that the games are intended for, no?
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2009, 10:47:21 AM »

That'd be hard to do, especially if you mean it should all be subject to vote. Because then it'd just be a popularity contest and subject to things like vote-courting and vote-mongering and "vote for my game!" -- whoever does that the loudest would win. I like the idea of a small group of people judging the games, but I don't think they should 2/3rds be from the mainstream games industry.
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« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2009, 11:06:22 AM »

I believe players should be the judges, not developers. After all they are the audience that the games are intended for, no?
That's what the audience award is for.
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Guert
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« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2009, 11:42:28 AM »

Ah, yes Paul, you do make a good point of me being biased. You're entirely right. So lemme clear up some things to explain my point of view a bit more.

The down part I see from the two philosophies joining to me is that, at some point, there will be more wannabes. Games will become easier to create, they will become more accessible creation-wise and thousands of "I don't know that I don't know" people will start thinking they can make good games, ripping off others, coming up with boring or mediocre products and not some good games. It'll be easier for talented people to stand out of the crowd, making it a jungle. Of course, that'll promote originality and creativity but at the same time, it's a bit sad. Quite frankly its a bad side but I can see some ups to it Wink

When I talk about funding, I'm not talking about clichéed "Publisher-developper" financing but rather other sources of money. For instance, getting a personal loan from a bank, getting government support or perhaps even angel money. Of course there's always be the side of the investor who wants some money back in some ways, but if the investor is the creator itself or perhaps an individual who understands that letting the creator do what he does freely will be lucrative somehow, you get some clean funding (ie not someone trying to make the game look like "generic-big-seller"). I like how the government in here in Canada helps out the indie guys too. They help the big guys, of course, but the small guys get a share too so it's pretty cool. Ask Phil and Alec on that topic. They know much more about this than me.

I also wonder on the impact on how players will see indie games. I mean, today the players easily accept lower production quality (not low quality, lower. As in not AAA titles with huge teams workin on them for years) titles because they are "indie". I  wonder if people will stop understanding that you cannot have the same amount of polish on a small team dev as in a huge team dev. Like, it would irritate me if people are gonna bitch about indie games not being "as cutting-edge" than the generic titles that will feature one new cool and flashy feature smuttered in redundant gameplay.   

There is no way in hell that the two philosophies can truly merge together seemlessly. Doesn't make sense, I completely agree. My vision, how I see and understand this, is more that the general pubic will accept ALL game design philosophies. I play some comercial games. I play indie games. I play experimental games as well as arcade games and retro games. I like games. I don't care how they are done (Well, I do care of course, otherwise I wouldn't be here but, as a player, the gameplay matters first Tongue). And I'd love to see the public do the same thing so that both commercial guys AND indie guys can actualy live of making games. Everyone has it's own undertsanding of "live of making games" and that's where one can see your design philosophy shine out. You decide what that means to you.

So in the end, my opinion is  "make it that the public starts playing other games than the craptacular generic bland manufactured spiced up with flashy idiotic stereotypes sausages that the large profit companies who enjoy looking at columns of numbers with lotsa zeros try to shove in the gamers throats while sucking off the money out of their pockets" than "make indie and mainstream games the same thing".

Does it help a bit to explain my point of view Paul? It's great to see your side of things Smiley
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Tom Sennett
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« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2009, 11:46:23 AM »

All a man can do in this crazy world is make the best game he can.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2009, 11:54:27 AM »

Yes Guert, thanks, it does help.

I think there are two "camps" in the indie game community, one that thinks mainstream games are fun and wants to make indie games which are similar to mainstream games, and the other that thinks mainstream games are not fun (or at least have major problems) and want to make games that they think would be better. So I think the merging of mainstream games and indie games would be a good thing for the first group, but a bad thing for the second group, because the reason the second group makes indie games is because they are unsatisfied with mainstream games and don't like them very much, whereas the reason the first group makes indie games is because they love mainstream games and want to make games that are like mainstream games.
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Glaiel-Gamer
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« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2009, 12:50:26 PM »

What, must have missed that.

Anyway, for people who have played the game, what's it like? The trailer doesn't really explain the gameplay very well.

You walked and flew around this level, and could pick up and eat fruits and pinecones and stuff which gave you powers or something, and you could find these items which when you stood next to them for a few seconds teleported to a stack in the middle, then you could co up on the stack and start flying from a higher point in the level presumably reaching other areas cause you have a better starting point.

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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2009, 01:09:59 PM »

Huh, you don't sound that impressed by it. Would you have picked it to win, or did you think any of the other finalists were better?
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Glaiel-Gamer
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« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2009, 01:22:36 PM »

There's something about it that's charming, but the gameplay itself is very hard to describe and I don't think the IGF showroom floor is the best place to try and understand it (read: edmund's coil sign). I enjoyed it though for what I did play of it.
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« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2009, 01:24:03 PM »

Gongratulations to the man with the funny hair.
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Fuzz
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« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2009, 04:16:58 PM »

I also wonder on the impact on how players will see indie games. I mean, today the players easily accept lower production quality (not low quality, lower. As in not AAA titles with huge teams workin on them for years) titles because they are "indie". I  wonder if people will stop understanding that you cannot have the same amount of polish on a small team dev as in a huge team dev. Like, it would irritate me if people are gonna bitch about indie games not being "as cutting-edge" than the generic titles that will feature one new cool and flashy feature smuttered in redundant gameplay.   
The thing is, sometimes lack of polish is accepted not because it conforms to some standard of "indie-ness", but because it feels more real. Polish is a good thing (we can't all be Jazzuo) but at the same time, I like feeling like a person made the game I'm playing, not a faceless company. I see no point in the two philosophies merging. It simply won't work. Funding from the gov't of Canada is always a nice thing, though.
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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2009, 11:02:00 PM »

@mrfredman - thanks! But as far as I am concerned it would have been a travesty if any game other than Machinarium had've won the visual art award - that game is absolutely stunning and probably my favourite from the whole event. I'll be getting my copy at the first opportunity for sure.

Besides, Cletus Clay is still *way* unfinished and the version submitted to judging was from *way way way* long ago. We worked 20 hour days in the leadup to the show to get something playable on the screen.

We were just happy to attend! We had so many positive comments, it was really encouraging especially since it was still in rough form. But Machinarium, man I just thought it was awesome.
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« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2009, 04:26:30 AM »

I thought Cletus and Night Game would be winners. Then again I thought Fret Nice would win last year.

I wonder if the winners this year will capitalise on the success as much as last years managed to? Seems to be a more arty, less obviously commercial, set of winners this year maybe.
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scruffy hermitgamestwitter
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« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2009, 07:40:01 AM »

That isn't to say that machinarium isn't very beautiful and well made, Cletus Clay just struck a chord with me and I was sad not to see it win.

That's wonderful of you to say but Machinarium had to win. We had already decided that if we did get lucky then we'd say as much on stage. It's just amazing.

The Cletus we showed on the show floor was quite different to the version we submitted to the IGF. We'd put in Anthony's original low-res 2d Blitz version and (if anyone got it running) had included an early build using HD artwork and 2.5d. We weren't very happy about it but circumstances were beyond our control so to get a nomination at all was a surprise.

People seemed to take to the new looks thankfully - which is good because it's been so difficult to make work.

Congrats to all the well deserved winners and I also wanted to say how cool everyone was too, especially our Dyson neighbours!

Photos will go on Flickr sortly.
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