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[8loop8]

Recently, i was thinking 2D isometric action RPGs, what could be added or how could the genre benefit from design points from other games. I stumbled upon an article that describes how isometric 2D games are similar to side scrollers in a sense that they lack etiher z or y dimension. That means that a game in 2D has both artistic potential and gameplay potential in the third dimension.  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/extra-punctuation/12056-Taking-On-Detrimental-Isometric-Game-Design

In side-scrollers the artistic dimension is easier to resolve because of backgrounds and parallax scrolling (layers of background moving at different speed, giving the impression of depth). A great example of this is Rain World. However, i did not find any side-scrollers that include depth in their gameplay. sidescrollers aside, Im more interested in the potential of isometric 2D games.

In the case of isometric games, because the camera is always pointing at the floor, you better have some pretty floors to keep the visuals interesting. I know some games that resolve this issue with simmilar techniques as sidescrolling games (Hyperlight driftercomes to mind first) but others, for example Eitr, i feel are really not using the potential of the perspective with room-corridor-room floor design. The game is not out yet so im basing my opinion on gameplay trailers.

Hyperlight drifter

Eitr

The point on which i found myself unable to think of any games that resolve the issue is again the gameplay aspect in the missing dimension. Usually levels in those kinds of games tend to be sprawling boards with strategically praced teleporters to prevent backtracking - and with that you give the player the option to avoid all the beautiful enviroment you crafted.

Some solutions i came up with is a system of layers, like previously mentioned game boards, only smaller and stacked one ontop of the other, giving the illusion of verticality, and enabling gameplay to include opporunity and danger above an below the player, as opposed to only around him.

Seeing that isometric perspective is most useful in strategy games, I think that an isometric 2D RPG that utilized verticality would be something really unique.

Are there any isometric games that have vertically oriented levels that are interconnected and complex such as those in 3D games or sidescrollers? Do you know any 2D isometric games that utilize height in their gameplay? Do you have any other ideas for makind isometric 2D more vertical?

[Polly]

2D


Orthographic


Don't know any isometric examples ...

[8loop8]

What is the name of the game in the second screenshot?

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

What is the name of the game in the second screenshot?

click the screenshot 

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

check this game:

Lemmings Pingball

[8loop8]

Thanks for the info, i can see something that combines these examples working. Jack Bros is something like the layering idea i described earlier, and adding height on the layers like Lemmings Pingball makes for an interesting effect. Thanks 

[Resource]

Unless I'm not understanding your definition of verticality I think there are many example of games presented in a 2d view with a 3rd interactive dimension. take Fallout 2 for example, you can enter buildings and go upstairs, that's verticality. For side scroller you could reference Little Big Planet, where you have 3 layers if I recall correctly that allow you to move in the depth axis.
I imagine the reason you don't see a lot of games leaning heavily on a third interactive axis when they are 2d games is because they've made the conscious choice to use 2d, and don't need that third dimension to improve the game.

[darkhog]

I think that there's little to no verticality in isometric games. because of camera issues. See, if there is a wall in an iso game where you can't rotate camera, it can obscure an enemy or a trap which makes for a frustrating experience.

Another thing is that jumps are hard to resolve in an isometric game. Even isometric section of Yooka-Laylee (found after expanding second world) suffers from it and you often fall into a pit because you let go of a button too early or too late. And that game has a shadow to tell you where you land, which is more than can be said of many isometric platformers!

Therefore, in my opinion, verticality in isometric games not only may not add to the experience, but it may actually detract from it!

[Oskuro]

Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga for the GBA attempts to have some verticality so as to preserve the iconic jump mechanics, although at times it can get confusing, but I did find it enjoyable in general, so the concept has merit.

Here you have the map from one of the areas (not displaying it on the post, it's pretty big):

http://www.mariouniverse.com/images/maps/gba/mlss/beanbean-outskirts.png

[darkhog]

I think the reason it works in Mario & Luigi is that the verticality is used sparsely and the jumping is rarely actually needed (there are places where you may WANT to jump, because there's a ? block, but you rarely actually need to jump to get to the next area). While the OP seems to want more involved verticality which poses problems outlined in my previous post.

[Oskuro]

Really? When I played it recently, I remember a lot of jumping to access different areas, and the lack of proper depth perception lead to way too many falls back to the start.

The tileset design does try to mitigate the confusion by coloring different heights with different hues, but the head on perspective (not even isometric, mind you) makes it easy to misjudge what platforms align with you as you jump.

There's even an underwater level where you have to keep track of your altitude (by mashing the "swim" button) both to avoid death spikes and floating monsters.

I enjoyed the game, but without a proper 3d perspective, verticality in this sort of game can be a mess.

But if you're telling me all the jumping in M&L:SS is scarce then I shudder to think the kind of jumping you people have in mind.... 

[darkhog]

Google c64 isometric platformer.

As of M&L, most of these jumps aren't REQUIRED to complete the game, just gives you access to some ? blocks or a coin block. Places where it's actually required are rare thorough the game (it pick ups more after SS, particularly in DS games, but in SS it's easy).

[s0]

also the actual jumping mechanics in mario & luigi are very simple (compared to the "main" mario games) and the "platforming" is mostly not challenging. the games are also not really isometric which helps with readability.

iso games with a lot of verticality can sometimes work (tactics ogre and games like that) but overall i have to agree with darkhog, most of these games are annoying/confusing to play due to camera issues and have aged poorly. im thinking of games like little big adventure, landstalker, sonic 3d blast etc.

[JWK5]

[Oskuro]

Well, color me inexperienced in isometric games with verticality then 

[s0]

a big problem with direct character control in an iso perspective is that on a dpad diagonal becomes straight which is not only physically uncomfortable on a lot of dpads but also awkward gameplay.

there's direct mouse control a la diablo which works well in a flat environment but lacks precision and/or fluidity for things like platforming imo.

[darkhog]

Some iso games I've played (don't remember specific titles though) try to mitigate the control by making rotating controls by 45 degrees, so e.g. when players presses "up" the character moves up-left on screen and so on. Makes sense if you ask me.

[bart_the_13th]

Are there any isometric games that have vertically oriented levels that are interconnected and complex such as those in 3D games or sidescrollers? Do you know any 2D isometric games that utilize height in their gameplay? Do you have any other ideas for makind isometric 2D more vertical?

Some levels in Super Mario RPG (SNES) does this... It use player's blob shadow to help determining the height(but not really that helpful unfortunately)

[Schoq]

I see nobody mentioned Snake Rattle n Roll so I thought I'd just drop that

[SchriefFighter]

I think as in all things if there's not an example of what you're looking for, it means it's open for you to create it, that's part of the fun of game design. You take elements that others have done and take them to a new level