next »

[KingHippo]

What you fucktards don't seem to get is that obviously Edge and this guy Langdell are in the right, else why would the US trademark office, the US federal court and companies like Namco and Velocity Micro all agree he is right?

Hmmm... that's not strictly true though, is it?

In fact... (as has been posted here already) it seems here that "Edge Interactive Media" actually failed when trying to oppose Namco's registration of the SOULEDGE trademark:

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/o33702.pdf

So don't go claiming that Namco "agree he is right" because that is, simply, a complete lie. Namco registered the trademark, Langdell moaned about it (but couldn't even be bothered to turn up for the hearing) and the court decided he was wrong and Namco was right.

Whether you are Mr Langdell or not, the fact is this is a simple case of bully tactics by someone who may have been involved in gaming many moons ago (though to what extent is questionable), but has contributed nothing of any value to the games industry for the past decade and is relying on an old trademark to make money and stifle other active developers of their creative freedom.

It's a pathetic display from someone who is trying to establish himself as some sort of "godfather of gaming", when in reality he's everything the games industry shouldn't be. And the fact he actually gives lectures on it is nothing short of despicable.

[Oddbob]

I can't really see how GD is a competitor to Edge in the slightest. Whilst Edge has an industry slant (and flowery words!), it's still a very mainstream magazine. Aside from both being purchased by swathes of the industry, there's little else to compare the two with. Different markets entirely.

Other than that, that's pretty much my reading of the situation also, Derek. I've only read the UK records for the Digital Edge case (opposition failed bar one concession - eventually "won" *only* by the applicants going into administration and therefor not being able to uphold their part of the process) and the Soul Edge case (opposition failed full stop) and they're an interesting read.

His justification for "defending his trademarks" in this manner, on scant and arguably dubious evidence (certainly it seemed to be considered so from reading the registrars decisions in both the cases I mentioned above) is what's in question here, not him defending his trademarks as is his right. I think everybody knows you have to defend a trademark in the US or lose it, but it's the manner he goes about doing so touching on products that bare little to no resemblance to his own works that asks whether it's actually warranted in a number of cases. My own personal opinion is no, it's not. Twice that's been backed up by the registrars. And of course, not everyone has the knowledge or the funds to defend such a dispute in the first place. It's not exactly outside the bounds of reasoning to have to consider that when assessing stuff like this.

Tom seems to be arguing something that's not in question. No-one's saying he doesn't have a right to defend his trademarks. It's how he does that and who he chases after that makes it abhorrent. There's nothing in Edge the game that can be confused with ANYTHING that Mr Langdell has put out, not by the public, not by anyone. And the Mirrors (a game by Edge) frankly takes the piss. How you can possibly justify that as anything -other- than malicious behaviour is beyond me.

As an aside, is there any reason to trademark an arsehole?

IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer game software, computer game programs, video game software, video game programs, computer game software that may be downloaded from a global computer network, video game software that may be downloaded from a global computer network, computer game cartridges to be used in computer game machines adapted for use with television receivers, video game cartridges, computers, computer accessories, plug-in boards, peripheral devices, flash cards, set-top boxes, cable modems, mobile game devices, handheld game devices, video game consoles, video game assessories, video game peripherals, augmented reality games, virtual reality games, games designed for use with mobile entertainment devices

[Yellowboy]

Who dares me to make a basic Pong game this weekend called "Edge of Edge of Edge: The Tim Langdell Story"?  We could start a pool to see how long until I get sued!

We should make a competition out of this.

They dont have a choice they have to follow the law.

Clear troll, I must advise that you cease the action of feeding us your bullshit.

[Craig Stern]

The defense of Tim Langdell's actions seem to be:

1. It's legal.
2. If you have a trademark, you have to defend it, or else you lose it.
3. Apple and other companies have sued people for infringement, so why not Tim.

My understanding of trademark law is that it's about identity and association, and it is there to protect creators from having their brands misappropriated by other people, and to prevent confusion by the consumer over what the brand is associated with.  Now, it's obvious to me that there would be very little confusion between the iPhone game Edge and Edge Games, and even less confusion between, say, Soul Edge and Edge Games or the movie The Edge and Edge Games.

Not to mention the fact that Tim is very obviously trying to create brand confusion with his game "Mirrors a game by Edge".  This is not, in my opinion, a guy looking to protect his company's identity, it's a guy who's looking to abuse trademark law to get himself associated with various projects and then use those associations to get even more associations.  It's like a Ponzi scheme of associations...

Really, you have to wonder why someone would use lawsuits to maintain their trademark for 20 years instead of just actively using the mark.  Does it make more sense that Tim Langdell is worried people will confuse Soul Edge as an Edge Games product, or does it make more sense that he's just trying to get a piece of every pie that has Edge in the name?

Well put--my thoughts exactly. Just one point: modern trademark law is even narrower than that! It exists for the sole purpose of protecting the consuming public against confusion about the source of goods or services. (Misappropriation is actually something different.) Anyway, there's just no way that suing people for using the word "edge" in a way that confuses no one is either necessary or defensible.

Buscaglia's point about Langdell having to enforce his trademark rights in order to maintain them is pure B.S.: there are many ways to lose even a long-held trademark like "the Edge," but genericism is really the only way to lose it by virtue of not suing infringers. A term only becomes generic, though, when it comes to stand for a general type of good or service (e.g. aspirin or artificial sweetener) rather than the source of that good or service (e.g. Aleve or Sweet 'n' Low). "The Edge" is not even arguably close to becoming generic.

Actually, if it weren't for the fact that Langdell is apparently licensing the mark to other companies, I would think he'd have far more reason to be concerned about his trademark being canceled by virtue of abandonment.

[SaintXi]

The Edge Church... well Tim does have religious themes on the site too:
http://www.the--edge.com/buddha/about.htm

Gotta catch em all!!

Pizza Hut watch out "The Edge Pizza" could be grabbed by the new Trademark registrations - seriously... but there is already competition in that market.

[raiten]

http://digg.com/gaming_news/Trademark_Troll_Gets_Mobigames_EDGE_Taken_Down

Digg it, let's get this out there

[raiten]

But again, why would Tom hide behind a pseudonym when he's fine acting all angry and swearing under his own name?

Uh maybe for the same reason he'd edit his own Wikipedia article using his wife's maiden name? Also, where was he "fine acting all angry and swearing under his own name"? I haven't seen any of it.

[Lurk]

My understanding of trademark law is that it's about identity and association, and it is there to protect creators from having their brands misappropriated by other people, and to prevent confusion by the consumer over what the brand is associated with.

There should be a limit though, I mean, I read the legal document about the Digital Edge peripherals affair, and it seemed to me the judge was going out of sane way to acknowledge that anything related to the game industry bearing the word 'edge' somewhere in the title could induce brand confusion. I agree with trademarks when they are created words; for example, you would be very legitimate to sue someone making a "Aquaria Legends" puzzle game(especially a match3), but to take a common word like 'edge' and apply this logic, as if you invented the term, is a bit ridiculous. But then, if these are the rules of the world, you can't expect the community to respect you for doing such insane thuggery.

 

[William Broom]

http://www.castroledgeusa.com/

I just went to see the new Star Trek movie. I'm watching the ads before the movie starts and what do I see? The same fucking EDGE logo.

This is scary. It's like that Bad Wolf thing in Doctor Who, or 'The Number 23'. I'm afraid that I'm going to follow a trail of EDGE-related clues to an abandoned building, where I will discover that I am actually Tim Langdell with amnesia.

[moi]

Looks like "someone" hacked the TIGSource frontpage.

[Gainsworthy]

Sorry? Where? Looks the same to me.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

that some of the igda board of directors and the igda forums seem to be defending him doesn't surprise me all that much -- the igda, like most members' associations and unions in the modern world (as opposed to when unions first started up), is partly a money-making scheme. remember that it was started by ernest adams, the same person who conned chris crawford out of the gdc (crawford started it up, ernest adams used some legal trick to hijack ownership)? corrupt people tend to be those who are good at rising to the top.

[moi]

Sorry? Where? Looks the same to me.

Ah maybe it was restored, or maybe it was my browser...
Previously the article on langdell appeared to be replaced with a lot of garbage text.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

that's just a bug in the site, it's happened to me with random posts too. i've seen it at least three times so far over the years.

as an aside, even if mopius is a sock puppet for this guy's wife or dog or whatever, that doesn't mean we shouldn't address his arguments and just attack mopius himself. his arguments should be addressed.

i think his point that this is no different from what other corporations like apple do is a good one. of course, this is a little different because apple would actually lose money if someone released an mp3 player with an apple on it, and this guy wouldn't lose money from mirror's edge or soul edge, but apple has its share of frivolous lawsuits as well. here's one example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/05/AR2007020501387.html

but i never really see 'other companies do things just as bad' as a valid defense -- if you cheat on your husband or wife and are caught, saying "90% of people cheat on their spouses" (statistically true) isn't really a valid defense. trademark suits are frivolous if they are over mere words and not over potential consumer misunderstanding.

[superflat]

This is getting weirder and weirder...

[Greg Game Man]

The EDGE games competition! hosted by tigsource, with prizes from Tim Langdell!!


This competition will be a great experience, and the prize is a lawsuit! YES! Whichever one of us gets sued first wins the competition.

Start date tbc

[Craig Stern]

i think his point that this is no different from what other corporations like apple do is a good one. of course, this is a little different because apple would actually lose money if someone released an mp3 player with an apple on it, and this guy wouldn't lose money from mirror's edge or soul edge, but apple has its share of frivolous lawsuits as well. here's one example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/05/AR2007020501387.html

Legally speaking, it doesn't matter if infringement makes you lose money or not--that only affects whether you get damages or just an injunction when you win. The real question is whether there is a likelihood of consumer confusion (that's the test for all trademark infringement cases). Langdell isn't a jerk for suing people when he hasn't lost money--he's a jerk because he's suing over uses of the word "edge" that no one in their right mind would be confused over.

[Lurk]

Just went over Tom Buscaglia's blog about the whole case.

So, while I anyone’s effort to fight for the little guy, these matters are for the court of law, not for a court of public opinion.

I think he's wrong about this. Because the legal side is the last thing the heart-driven indie community is thinking about when making a game, and the indie public will react accordingly to any corporate type attack on it's turf. Can you imagine a prolific dev like Cactus having to go through a lawyer everytime he has an idea(would make the lawyer happy, no doubt)? 

Of course, you can always buy Tom's legal devkit (http://www.gamedevkit.com/) for under 300$, what a bargain to (maybe) avoid being sued by his friend Tim.
 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

yeah -- also, nobody is saying it should be "decided" in a court of public opinion. it's not a witch hunt, we're not saying to hang him or something. it's just that you're going to get public opinion expressed when you do something like this.

also, Tom Buscaglia is apparently a 'game attorney' -- why is he on the board of the igda too? i thought it was for game developers, not lawyers

[edgetheedge]

Made a disturbing Twitter discovery today:

Joakim Baage (@joakimbaage), organizer of the Nordic Lounge event at E3 next week, announced:

"Gaming and Film heavy-weight Tim Langdell confirmed to speak at the Nordic Lounge event during E3"

For all of you attending E3, register within (seating is extremely limited)!

This here is your chance to meet the man himself:

http://www.digitalmediawire.com/nordiclounge/

Just don't forget to ask the "heavy-weight" some heavy-hitting questions!

In the meantime, please send complaints to the event's organiser: [email protected]

P.S.:

His bio on the Nordic site is even more amazing. Did you know he founded EA Europe and SEGA Europe? Effectively?

"Tim is an early founding member of the game industry having formed one of the first games companies, EDGE Games. At the time, EDGE was effectively Electronic Arts Europe and Sega Europe as well as being a top five European game publisher."