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[tim_the_tam]

i hate it when games use text and only text to tell story. i usually skim through or skip through the text and pretty much get a gist of whats going on no matter how great the story is. this is one of the reasons why i dont like playing rpgs and point and click adventure games.

pheonix wright is only game that i can think of that i actually made an effort to read and its a heavy text story driven game. it was because the designers did things to make reading more interesting. they bold letters, words appeared slower or faster and sound effects were used on certain words.

so i was wondering what other ways can you make reading text more interesting and what games have you played that you actually made an effort reading.

edit.
i saw this on game career guide and it made me think about text in games again. while i didnt read through the whole article the first few paragraphs made a lot of sense on the whole enriching gameplay and choice aspect of text. which i guess, is the reason why i skip text in games a lot and why i really enjoyed reading phenoix wright.

anyways check it out
 
http://gamecareerguide.com/features/782/the_lost_art_of_conversation_in_.php?page=1

[Seth]

There are several novels, stories, essays, poems, etc. that have been written in the English language (and other languages too, I'm sure) throughout history that can be interesting or fun to read, without any fancy technological tricks!  But it's true, reading can be annoying when you're playing a game, usually for one of these three reasons:

1. Reading on a screen is hard on the eyes (still, it can't be too hard, when so many people still browse forums all day)
2. The games use a poor font or font/background color combination (happens all the time)
3. The writing is bad (most games suffer from this)

It's also weird that in a text heavy game, we still usually feel pressured to go on--like in most games, there's always that force of 'just gotta get to the next level,' where I'd say this is only true for certain kinds of books... so that 'slow down' sort of mentality that's required for a lot of reading is contrary to the nature of a lot of games.  Or, in other words, too many games that have a lot of text even treat it as something that's just in the way, instead of something that's equally important to the game as the gameplay--I haven't played Phoenix Wright, but it seems like they don't treat the dialogue as something getting in the way of the game but as something very important to the game.

[Captain_404]

3. The writing is bad (most games suffer from this)

Quoted. For. Truth.

Most games have absolutely horrid writing, it tends to be simplistic and dull. There is very little complexity or style to it at all. I was once messing around in Halo 3 with a friend (who I've tried to convert to indie games with moderate success) and we were cowering in some corner as Master Cheif when an alien found us and immediately shouted, "THANKS TO ME WE HAVE FOUND HIM!" a statement equally horrible and hilarious. Honestly, if you had found a supersoldier who had singlehandedly killed most everyone else in the room, would those be the first words from your mouth? Game writing just doesn't seem to venture beyond blunt, basic emotions; ie, 'this is good', 'this is bad', 'I am angry', etc.

Let's imagine for a second that games did do this well, and that all their characters were realistic. Even then, games still lack stylized language, or at least any done very well. Everything is either simplistic and dry or completely overwritten.


When it comes down to it, I think reading any truly good writing should be "fun"; it shouldn't leave you bored. If you're bored reading something, it's just not good writing. I don't care what it is. Even your tutorial should engage the player, there's simply no excuse not to.

Why can't games do things like this or this?

[poorwill]

Karaoke.

I think I am actually serious.

This would make for excellent multiplayer JRPGs, as it combines the two best things imaginable: high school-grade theatre and JRPGs.

@ Captain_404: I am pretty sure that Halo 3 script is being funny-on-purpose.  All alien dialogue is meant to be awkwardly translated by your suit's computer - those creatures aren't actually speaking English.  FYI!
The Halo rule: Any in-game chatter is funny-on-purpose, all cutscene dialogue is funny-by-mistake and painful to listen to.
Other than that, I'm totally on your side here:  I think it would be fucking awesome if Grunts read excerpts from The Great Gatsby.

[tim_the_tam]

There are several novels, stories, essays, poems, etc. that have been written in the English language (and other languages too, I'm sure) throughout history that can be interesting or fun to read, without any fancy technological tricks! 

first off.. LOL =D
i completely forgot about those several novels, stories etc that were made throughout history that are fun to read. maybe its because i have read one in a while..

But it's true, reading can be annoying when you're playing a game, usually for one of these three reasons:

1. Reading on a screen is hard on the eyes (still, it can't be too hard, when so many people still browse forums all day)
2. The games use a poor font or font/background color combination (happens all the time)
3. The writing is bad (most games suffer from this)

i agree with this especially point 3. but.. pheonix wright had some bad writing yet i still read it for some reason.

It's also weird that in a text heavy game, we still usually feel pressured to go on--like in most games, there's always that force of 'just gotta get to the next level,' where I'd say this is only true for certain kinds of books... so that 'slow down' sort of mentality that's required for a lot of reading is contrary to the nature of a lot of games.  Or, in other words, too many games that have a lot of text even treat it as something that's just in the way, instead of something that's equally important to the game as the gameplay--I haven't played Phoenix Wright, but it seems like they don't treat the dialogue as something getting in the way of the game but as something very important to the game.

i think thats very true. most games dont treat text as something really important. i mean..  i phoenix wright you need to read it and digest in order to solve the puzzles so its an important aspect.. oh.. so thats why i kept reading.. i think thats the only way to make text important enough to read it. if a game provides text make sure its important to the gameplay wise. i think thats the reason why i skip story told through text because i dont really need it in order to play the game. in fact the the stats on the sword im holding provides more relevance to the game than the backstory involved when im fighting a monster which pretty much makes up the whole gameplay of the game.  maybe thats why i skip story text.. anyways.. thanks Seth i learned something in my digression. ^^

[Draknek]

By adding platforming?

[Captain_404]

@ Captain_404: I am pretty sure that Halo 3 script is being funny-on-purpose.  All alien dialogue is meant to be awkwardly translated by your suit's computer - those creatures aren't actually speaking English.  FYI!
The Halo rule: Any in-game chatter is funny-on-purpose, all cutscene dialogue is funny-by-mistake and painful to listen to.
Other than that, I'm totally on your side here:  I think it would be fucking awesome if Grunts read excerpts from The Great Gatsby.

That makes sense I guess. I should probably not write these kinds of posts late at night anymore when my brain stops working.

And yeah, I think the basic point I was trying to make remains valid anyway.

[Bree]

Poorwill, I am intrigued by your karaoke idea. Care to elaborate?

[poorwill]

That is pretty much it.  It wasn't meant to be intriguing, it was supposed to be a joke

[William Broom]

It should have an algorithm that rates your performance, and fills up your 'Emotion Meter' accordingly. By spending points from a character's Emotion Meter, you can upgrade their stats. Also, certain key scenes must be performed well in order to unlock unique attacks i.e. the scene where the hero and heroine kiss will unlock a team attack for those two characters. It's basically the same as in FFX when you had to do that awful QTE sequence to unlock the Jecht Shot.

[poorwill]

I ragequit FFX during that scene and never went back.  The worst part of any game I have ever played.

RPGaoke would be cool, because you could freestyle rap your own dialogue and it would automatically be better than whatever fanfic generator they squirt JRPG dialogue out of. 

I want to link a Star Ocean IV cutscene but I'm on 56k right now and It'll take forever to find it.

[Poor Lazlo]

I think the main problem with long text in games is that it usually stops everything and makes you sit through it. A lot of games would probably benefit from putting their text in the background, while still allowing the player to run around. Would this only really work for something with a more abstract art style?

In any case, the additional benefit is that if the text is awful, you can ignore it. 

[Bree]

It should have an algorithm that rates your performance, and fills up your 'Emotion Meter' accordingly. By spending points from a character's Emotion Meter, you can upgrade their stats. Also, certain key scenes must be performed well in order to unlock unique attacks i.e. the scene where the hero and heroine kiss will unlock a team attack for those two characters. It's basically the same as in FFX when you had to do that awful QTE sequence to unlock the Jecht Shot.

Is this in the right thread?

[Poor Lazlo]

Is this in the right thread?

I think maybe he is saying that text and story in games should be tied more to gameplay? Maybe?

[poorwill]

He's talking about RPGaoke!

[Trevor Dunbar]

The "Story" mode in BlazBlue makes me cringe...oh god. The only thing I like is Taokaka calling Litchi, "Booby lady".

The rest is so bad, it's a great effort to try to skip the text as fast as possible.

The voice acting ranges from, "OH GOD, MUTE IT NOW" to "Hey, he sounds sorta-cool" to "WTF!?" to "That just sounds stupid".

[William Broom]

He's talking about RPGaoke!

Exactly!

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i'd be more interesting in tricks to make the gameplay more fun, because usually the stories of games are much more interesting to me than the games themselves

[Montoli]

Well, have you looked into the Phoenix Wright games at all?  They're basically "Critical Reading:  The Game!".  And they do make it fairly fun.  (In their case, because the actual primary gameplay activity is reading someone's testimony and trying to spot the location where it doesn't add up.)

These obviously aren't applicable to all games, but if you establish that there is some reward to be had by reading the conversations closely, (beyond just "there is a good story there") then you'll get more people to do it?  In Phoenix Wright, it's because you know that in every conversation there is a flaw.  So with that guarantee, you can sit and read and reread the conversation carefully until you find it.  Sort of like how books like "Where's Waldo" make it even more fun to look at an already engaging picture.  I mean, the picture is cool, but you look at it even longer than normal because you know there is an extra goal to hunt for.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

you forget that i coded the fedora spade games, which are similar in genre to phoenix wright...