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[joulimousis]

Game devs, please stop using the “art game” claim, it makes no sense. What does it mean? What are you trying to say with it? That the game may bore me but I must not pay attention to it because it’s art? That I must get involved with it in a deeper way than other games?

Does people refer to some painting as “art paintings” instead of “painting”? Or “art music”? No? Why is that? Maybe because it’s useless. A game is a game, and as any other form of art, it has infinite variations to it. Let me be the one that finds meaning or a message in your work and see if it represent something to me or not. Devs are using the term “art games” as an excuse for something, and no game needs it, because all games are art. And art, for me, resides more in the observer than the maker.

Telling me that something is art is like explaining a joke. If I’m not laughing, it’s because it’s not funny to me, and that’s it. If your work doesn’t speak to me, leave it at that, and don’t embarrass yourself by using the “be aware it’s an art game” claim.

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This is a post from our blog (heavyboat.com/devblog). I'm posting it here because i think it can be the kick start for a good discussion.

[Hangedman]

...you know bringing this up again is going to cause a massive shitstorm? Or massive indifference?

[joulimousis]

I'll take the shitstorm please.

[Blodyavenger]

I say game itself is a masterpiece, it's an art in some form. Of course, art has a different meaning for everyone.

For me, "game is an art" means that game will make me feel good, that I'll be pulled into it, that it will leave me with mouths opened.

[SpaceSalmon]

I don't know. There is few games without graphics and they are hardly played by anyone. But most games have actual graphics, good or not. So how can a game be art game really? art is really just a visual peice. So I don't understood why anyone would call their game 'art game' when most games include graphics and music and stuff  

I think joulimousis has a good point. I don't really know what an art game would be like, i'm kinda new here. But it sounds like for what art-rock is to music. So would it be an avant-garde game? Because that I could understand.

[PlayMeTape]

Reeeaally don't want to pour any fuel on this fire but I can't help it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_punk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_rock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music

[Cthulhu32]

[joulimousis]

SpaceSalmon seems to get the question.

What's the difference between an "art game" from the rest of games?

I'm not questioning that games are art, that's the whole point of the discussion. Games are art, so why are some people still calling some games "artgame"?

[JoGribbs]

I use the term 'art game' because those are the only games that are art. The rest aren't art and I hate them.

[joulimousis]

I use the term 'art game' because those are the only games that are art. The rest aren't art and I hate them.

And I hate you! Stupid! You are so gay!
CALL OF DUTY IS THE BEST GAMEEEEEEEEE!

but seriously...

[Blodyavenger]

I think I know what you mean. If we talk about that I would call game "Passage" art game since it's not something you enjoy actualy, and it has no other goal that hold "RIGHT" key walking all the way to the end. Why art game - I guess because it has meaning behind it, it has a message but like I said, I wouldn't call that a game because it's more like an interactive media or something, I don't know...

I hope there is someone that will answer to your question completly (because I'm wondering that as well)

[joulimousis]

I think I know what you mean. If we talk about that I would call game "Passage" art game since it's not something you enjoy actualy, and it has no other goal that hold "RIGHT" key walking all the way to the end. Why art game - I guess because it has meaning behind it, it has a message but like I said, I wouldn't call that a game because it's more like an interactive media or something, I don't know...

I hope there is someone that will answer to your question completly (because I'm wondering that as well)

A little note. Play passage again, and this time try to move up and down too. You'll get a surprise. That game has a lot of meaning, it is deep and powerful. But it's an art piece like any other game, just a better one on some aspects.

[Sorano]

You can also use the term "notgames" if you find art games to not be the term that suits you.

You're comments are pretty broad and inflammatory. I'm not expecting much.

[adam_smasher]

The term is most closely related to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_film

Make the necessary substitutions:

An art film (also known as art movie, specialty film, art house film, or in the collective sense as art cinema) is typically a serious, independently made film aimed at a niche audience rather than a mass audience. Film critics and film studies scholars typically define an "art film" using a "...canon of films and those formal qualities that mark them as different from mainstream Hollywood films", which includes, among other elements: a social realism style; an emphasis on the authorial expressivity of the director; and a focus on the thoughts and dreams of characters, rather than presenting a clear, goal-driven story. Film scholar David Bordwell claims that "art cinema itself is a [film] genre, with its own distinct conventions."

...Art films are aimed at small niche market audiences, which means they can rarely get the financial backing which will permit large production budgets, expensive special effects, costly celebrity actors, or huge advertising campaigns, as are used in widely-released mainstream blockbuster films. Art film directors make up for these constraints by creating a different type of film, which typically uses lesser-known film actors (or even amateur actors) and modest sets to make films which focus much more on developing ideas or exploring new narrative techniques or filmmaking conventions.

Furthermore, a certain degree of experience and intellect are required to understand or appreciate such films; one late 1990s art film was called "largely a cerebral experience" which you enjoy "because of what you know about film". This contrasts sharply with mainstream "blockbuster" movies, which are geared more towards escapism and pure entertainment. For promotion, art films rely on the publicity generated from film critics' reviews, discussion of their film by arts columnists, commentators, and bloggers, and "word-of-mouth" promotion by audience members. Since art films have small initial investment costs, they only need to appeal to a small portion of the mainstream viewing audiences to become financially viable.

When someone says "games are art" because they have artwork, music, etc., they might not be wrong (in a certain sense), but they're misunderstanding the issue.

[tsameti]

I think the problem is there's a gap in terminology.

Art: There's more to art than being visually or aurally engaging. A painting is not automatically art because it's been painted. It has to be painted with the intention of communicating an emotional message from human being to human being. It's a form of communication.

I like to refer to Leo Tolstoy's definition. He's got a great essay on the subject: What is Art? Leo Tolstoy

Games: Have a set of rules, and they also often have a way to 'win' or 'score'. They are a form of entertainment or amusement.

Here's what I see. I see this gap where software art, I guess we can use passage as an example, because there's really nothing to do with 'winning' or 'competing' in the game. It's not really a game at all. We need a better word for it, and it sounds like for lack of a better term people are settling on 'art-game'.

What else do you call it? I don't know.

[joulimousis]

I don't want to discuss what's art itself. Because it's been talked to death and no one has arrived to a conclusion yet, which makes sense due to the nature of art.

Thanks to some comments on the blog and in here I understand that critics and bloggers are the ones calling some games "art games" instead of the developers. The reason it that is the only way that they found to express that something goes beyond pure entertainment and the common rules for games.

So, this rant will end in the most unexpected way.

You are right! Things are very complex and sometimes we find ways to make it simpler! And that's awesome!

But don't let me run into a gamedev calling his/her game art, because I will lose my mind! And god knows what I'm capable of in such a position.

[deathtotheweird]

(obvious troll but oh well)

All I hear when reading your blog is "DERP I DON"T ENJOY SOMETHING SO YOU GUYS ARE WRONG AND STOP DOING IT"

What do you care what other people do or how they personally choose to define their work? Sounds like you have some growing up to do.

[joulimousis]

(obvious troll but oh well)

All I hear when reading your blog is "DERP I DON"T ENJOY SOMETHING SO YOU GUYS ARE WRONG AND STOP DOING IT"

What do you care what other people do or how they personally choose to define their work? Sounds like you have some growing up to do.

Oh dear...

[Nate Kling]

Someone get the hose ready this thread is about to start flaming...

[Landshark RAWR]

everyone is going to have their opinions on what art-game means, so i may as well share mine.

Art-game is sort of its own genre (or sub-genre, whatevs), kind of like a shooter or RPG, where the art-game genre is based around telling a deep message, or invoking a specific feeling.