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[nothingxs]

post...too big...can't take it   

Who are you?

Someone with:

1) Too much time on their hands.
2) Too much of an unhealthy obsession with fighting games. I'm 24, I've been playing since I was 7.

[Valter]

no characters that lose in every matchup.

I disagree! A joke character is always fun. Especially if you want to embarrass your friends (or yourself for playing this game so much), or just have fun.

Example: Luigi is probably one of the strangest characters in SSB (not bottom tier, but by no means the best). On the other hand, a four-luigi match + Smash Balls only on very high frequency is the most fun you'll ever have playing SSB.

Goofy/Joke characters spice things up. Nobody's requiring you to play them. They're just there for fun, and I think at least one could definitely be fit into Brawl.

[nothingxs]

no characters that lose in every matchup.

I disagree! A joke character is always fun. Especially if you want to embarrass your friends (or yourself for playing this game so much), or just have fun.

Example: Luigi is probably one of the strangest characters in SSB (not bottom tier, but by no means the best). On the other hand, a four-luigi match + Smash Balls only on very high frequency is the most fun you'll ever have playing SSB.

Goofy/Joke characters spice things up. Nobody's requiring you to play them. They're just there for fun, and I think at least one could definitely be fit into Brawl.

My biggest problem with joke characters is that they are essentially wasted character spots. There's very little reason to play a joke character except for, as you say, complete personal amusement. You could just as easily make a 'joke' character that is actually competent in combat while remaining funny and amusing or unorthodox to play.

The idea of purposely making a bad character just seems like lazy design, to me.

[Eagle0600]

Besides, Luigi is pretty decent in a fight if used properly. And still funny.

[nothingxs]

Besides, Luigi is pretty decent in a fight if used properly. And still funny.

Correct -- there is nothing that's really a 'joke' about Luigi. In fact, SSBB is somewhat notable in that it doesn't really have any joke characters in that sense. Even characters that you'd figure are played a bit for laughs, like Game & Watch, are pretty serious -- if not really good.

[mokesmoe]

There's Dan from street fighter. He can still fight well, he just has a lot of joke moves. Like a super taunt that uses up his whole special meter.


Top of page makes look like a idiotic character request. Hehe.

[Contrary]

As a bit of an aside to this:

I'm a bit of a fighting game aficionado. (This is an understatement.)

TEXT

Fucking right on the money. If you were right here with me you would get a massive aerial high-five.

I actually don't really know what I'm talking about, I'm just regurgitated what I've heard in a like a year of playing SC4 religiously. This guy is just... Really correct.

Also, all characters in Brawl are viable and good, with the exception of Ganondorf and/or you're against Metaknight. Then again, Brawl is hardly the most balanced game on the market.

Actually even having a couple awful characters isn't even that bad. Some people prefer the challenge of awful awful terrible characters. Me, for one. I absolutely refuse to main a top-tier character in any game (with the exception of Pikachu in SSB64, because it's the only way I can contend against my friend's Pikachu, Kirby, and Falcon). And in many cases, I'll choose to play terrible characters (Tira/Zasalamel in SC4, Bears/Armour King in Tekken, Pikachu in Melee, etc.)

[Soulliard]

Even characters that you'd figure are played a bit for laughs, like Game & Watch, are pretty serious -- if not really good.

Hey, now. Don't insult my main.

I approve of funny characters that are still competent. Like Nikujin, for example. But I don't see the point of characters that are purposefully bad.

[nothingxs]

Even characters that you'd figure are played a bit for laughs, like Game & Watch, are pretty serious -- if not really good.

Hey, now. Don't insult my main.

I approve of funny characters that are still competent. Like Nikujin, for example. But I don't see the point of characters that are purposefully bad.

Agreed. To note, Game & Watch is played for laughs with how silly the character is, but if I recall he is one of the better characters in the game. Even more so in Melee!

[Ryavis]

Considering how slow the spritework is for this project, making a bad character on purpose would be criminally stupid.

[Soulliard]

Just FYI, I'm going on vacation to Florida for a week. I will have limited internet access, but a good deal of down-time with my laptop. Expect some work to get done on Indie Brawl, but don't expect to hear from me for a while.

[nothingxs]

Just FYI, I'm going on vacation to Florida for a week. I will have limited internet access, but a good deal of down-time with my laptop. Expect some work to get done on Indie Brawl, but don't expect to hear from me for a while.

If you're in Miami, you've an invitation from me for a cuban coffee and some food at Sergio's.   

[nothingxs]

I just tried the latest version available for download. I have some comments and feelings about the game that I'd like to share, but I don't know if it's a little too early.

[William Broom]

I don't know what you mean by 'it would be too early'. I think you should go ahead and tell us what you think.

[nothingxs]

My biggest issue is with what I feel is a lack of 'normals' -- just simple, basic melee attacks altogether. I know most characters in this game don't normally have these, but if you want to enhance the actual fighting aspect, there should probably be a few of these so that close combat is a bit more interesting.

For the current downloadable version, here's a real preliminary list of thoughts:

GENERAL

- Most characters' second jumps seem way too low. This seems to be more of a problem simply because characters are so short and stages aren't very tall, and it might be more of a non issue in the long run.
- HP before you start FLYING with everything is a bit... low?

IJI

I have the most reservations about her altogether.

- Shotgun start up is too slow -- it's too close to the rest of the weapons. Should probably be faster.
- Shotgun reach is too short. Consider making the cone longer but have the same ending 'spread'.
- Shotgun damage hitbox should start right on top of Iji. Right now it's a bit far in front of her.
- And in the end, the Shotgun is too similar to the Shocksplinter even with changes. No reason not to use Shocksplinter instead.
- And in a lot of cases (whenever you're on the ground, for instance) there's no reason to use Shocksplinter when you can just hit the Plasma Cannon. I can't think of one, anyway.
- Kick knockback is way too strong for a 'normal' attack. See issues with normals above. This is fine otherwise.
- Ground rocket is questionable... explosion isn't that big, damage is forgettable and uses are few. Could benefit from a bigger explosion.
- Nuke is actually... fine as it is. Deals about the right amount of damage and does roughly what it should. I'd increase the upwards movement if choosing to go straight up.
- v+S should probably be a separate move when done in the air instead of the Plasma Cannon.
- Iji can't block.
- All in all, Iji feels like a really bad Liero.

LIERO

I know I say I hate balancing down, but holy christ.

- Banana Bomb: ridiculous, HAELP. Is this necessary?
- Shotgun has... infinite reach? He probably doesn't need a weapon that good.

NAIJA

Feels like the most complete character altogether.

- If v+A and >+A are going to be transformation attacks, I altogether expect up+A to be the attack that'll move me upwards.

TRILBY

- I can't be the only one to notice that >+B -> A is really abusable?

GOLDEN KNIGHT

Feels like another fairly complete character. I like the fact he can string attacks together relatively easily. I just wish Bonesaw wasn't automatic -- I want to activate this mode manually, not have it spring up on me all of a sudden when I get enough Bonesaw power, because I might not want it or may want to save it for another situation.

[thewojnartist]

Wow, I noticed all of those problems (except for Liero, who deserves powerful weapons with the extreme knockback he gets as a lightweight) Yet I would have never thought to have complained. Yet we need to complain to make this the best fighting game ever. Good Going 

[Rumrusher]

I wonder should there be a tourney style mode where 90% of the content of the game is strip for a street fighter clone right down to the circle + button moves, limited air control, and pallet swaps.

with that said joke characters in this type of game could be those from other tig related content like the characters from comic compo(2) I for one would love to unlock sarah von hitlersagatine, jelly cube, mango tim, burning native, or the fine monocle wearing gent along with the normal cast. it would be silly and fun, competitive wise would make such characters either to confusing or cause the main page comments section filled with demands of nerfing every one to a state of vegetation. wait best fighting game to whom? the tourny players, the normal gamers, or our selves?

[Eagle0600]

Iji's fine. For one, the kick is a relatively slow melee attack. Are you saying it should weaker than the equal-speed ranged attacks?

The shotgun is perfectly useful at close range, because it's faster than the shock-splinter.

The shocksplinter is MUCH faster than the plasma cannon.

In playing with Iji with my brother and a friend, I learned how all of these have their own place and work well together so that Iji is interesting to play, but not OP.

[nothingxs]

Iji's fine. For one, the kick is a relatively slow melee attack. Are you saying it should weaker than the equal-speed ranged attacks?

The shotgun is perfectly useful at close range, because it's faster than the shock-splinter.

The shocksplinter is MUCH faster than the plasma cannon.

In playing with Iji with my brother and a friend, I learned how all of these have their own place and work well together so that Iji is interesting to play, but not OP.

Iji has no real melee options except a kick to knock you back with. I'm saying it's actually kind of boring. It's fast enough for it being her only basic melee attack, I suppose, but it doesn't... do much. It'd be great to finish a combo with, but this game seems like it's not particularly leaning in that direction. Look at just about every fighting game in existence and you'll notice that just about every character's basic attack (to refer to SSB, look at everyone's standing normal attack) comes out very, very fast. Only a few characters have this in Indie Brawl. Compare SSB where every character has 'tilt' moves which are all technically normal melee attacks -- four different kinds (stand, f-tilt, u-tilt, d-tilt) and three 'smash' attacks, which tend to be better melee attacks or have some interesting properties (u-smash, d-smash, f-smash). Let's not even go into the whole tons of different normals in the air...

The Shotgun is 'faster' in that the burst travels faster and therefore hits people in front of her faster. However, actual move startup is identical -- the amount of time for the move to actually do something from it being inputted. And when you're in shotgun range, it's actually exactly as useful to use the Shocksplinter because the difference in time before the splinter actually hits you in that short distance is minimal -- no character actually moves fast enough to get out of the way of the attack. I can only see it being useful in situations where someone is moving so fast that you essentially need the two or so frames of faster movement to cope with the attack, and even then they could ostensibly avoid you by holding away. Even if the player reacted on time by seeing the shooting animation starting up, the attack being a shotgun or a Shocksplinter will give someone maybe a frame or two of time to get out of the way in any other situation.

As for the Shocksplinter, it isn't a whole lot faster than the Plasma Cannon... actually, in the version I'm playing it looks like the Plasma Cannon's start up is actually faster by a frame or so. It also reaches across the screen much farther, so it technically is the 'fastest' attack in terms of covering and controlling screen real estate from the point of having pressed the button to the attack actually occurring.

She's not OP at all. I'd say she's rather mediocre compared to Nikujin or Liero.

I wonder should there be a tourney style mode where 90% of the content of the game is strip for a street fighter clone right down to the circle + button moves, limited air control, and pallet swaps.

with that said joke characters in this type of game could be those from other tig related content like the characters from comic compo(2) I for one would love to unlock sarah von hitlersagatine, jelly cube, mango tim, burning native, or the fine monocle wearing gent along with the normal cast. it would be silly and fun, competitive wise would make such characters either to confusing or cause the main page comments section filled with demands of nerfing every one to a state of vegetation. wait best fighting game to whom? the tourny players, the normal gamers, or our selves?

The game is more in the same vein of style of Smash in terms of input of moves. I'd rather keep the simple inputs, to be honest, and I'm a Street Fighter player.

Joke characters can be made silly and fun while still being viable for competition. There's no reason why one side has to be exclusive to the other, and I don't understand neither argument's side on why one should focus on only one of the two aspects. This is why I'd rather improve weak characters rather than nerf strong ones.

[thewojnartist]

I just played the most recent version (haven't been able to play it for certain personal reasons as of late) and I've changed my opinion on Iji. She is actually pretty great if used properly. And as for why we don't have combo moves, it would be to much animating. It's not like ArdentSideburn is going to come by and make us some combo moves every half hour. Plus, you can make some pretty awesome combos by combining the attacks you have. Other than that, I agree with the rest of your criticisms and still congradulate your complaining    

Edit: ERROR ALERT!
In Death Worm Desert, if you jump up onto a platform from below in a certain way, you'll stay in your jumping sprite. Plus, if you use Iji's rocket thing on the ground there, you can see the explosion partially right below the ground. It kind of bothers me in how it looks.