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[Ntero]

The problem is that Nicalis is obviously surfing on the indie popularity wave and picking from only the most popular/well-known developers, so they should be cautious and take extra steps not to anger the very audience which built these games popularity.
Now if they had a more varied line up of games and devellopers, maybe people would be more tolerant.
Right now it looks a bit like indie exploitation.

But why would they take less popular titles in a less popular genre?  Indie Games become popular for a reason, they are good and have a flavour that is enjoyed by more than just a small niche.  Taking games that are niche titles, and trying to create a publishing company out of that is stupid.  They are niche titles because they have a taste that is very specific and not often shared by the general audiences.  The same general audiences that Nicalis is trying to sell to.

I personally like Desktop Dungeon.  I think it's fantastic.  But I know it's a niche title, and I know that most people who play the wii would not like Desktop Dungeon.  Because it's a niche title.  That doesn't make it any less fun for me, but it does make it something that any publishing company, whether they want to consider themselves indie or not, is not going to release on the wii.  Because publishing companies, whether indie or not, need to have high sales to compensate the high costs.

They are not exploiting, they are allowing people who could benefit from better exposure to benefit from better exposure.  And making money while they do it.  And they shouldn't feel forced to pick niche titles they know won't sell well just to gain some sort of 'indie cred'.

[moi]

They are stealing our wind.
They are trailing our trucks.
why don't they go and create awesome new original games for themselves?
We the community made free marketing for these games for them.

[TheDustin]

Also last night I had 4-5 back-to-back crashes around the balcony, which was supremely frustrating.. every time I went through a door the game would freeze.

I am Wii-less (make any juvenile jokes you want to) so I wouldn't know, but is this a common occurrence? The last thing we would want is to have the common perception that one of our most-touted games is buggy and shoddily coded.  

[Widget]

They are stealing our wind.
They are trailing our trucks.
why don't they go and create awesome new original games for themselves?
We the community made free marketing for these games for them.

LULZ.. as ever, cutting to the core of the issue. We "all" want to hate Nicalis for, basically, being a bog-standard publisher, as the industry understands it.

I really don't think it's the player's place to complain about the contracts their favourite developer makes... but that's just me...

[bento_smile]

I was discussing this with Mare and she made a good point: until we know how e.g Pixel and Nifflas feel about selling their IP, it's useless to speculate. Because, maybe Pixel was personally more than happy to sell Cave Story in exchange for whatever he got (I'm hoping/assuming some money up front and some royalties).

This is a noobish question, but where is it said that they sold the IP to Nicalis? I mean, explicitly, that Nicalis have 100% rights over everything to do with the product. Just because I would like to see it confirmed.

There are a lot of different rights in publishing aside from the copyright of the actual work itself (like ancillary rights, reproduction rights, and moral rights)

[Ntero]

They are stealing our wind.
They are trailing our trucks.
why don't they go and create awesome new original games for themselves?
We the community made free marketing for these games for them.

Night Game (Wii) is made by Nifflas.  Cave Story (Wii) is made by Pixel.  I don't think anybody was bashing kneecaps to get them to sign on.  The alternative is that Pixel and Nifflas don't get financial freedom to create what they want to create full time.  I don't think either one of them is stupid, and it's not that hard to understand an NDA or IP ownership clauses.  They can always make new and different things if they grow tired of Nicalis.

Yes, there was lots of free press for the games they chose.  But they did not steal it.  They went straight to the person the free press was for, and worked deals with them.  You can't expect them to log on to Tigsource and say 'Hey guys how about you vote on who's game we try to expand on next.', because they are not in the market of freeware creative games(no risk).  They are in the market of very expensive commercial games(high risk).  So they don't just let random people they don't know make critical decisions for them.

[TwilightVulpine]

We the community made free marketing for these games for them.

And that's basically why I don't see what is wrong with making requests and complaining, even more when it's a commercial game. We feel entitled because we are, at the very least, the most likely to buy, and often the ones to do word-of-mouth marketing, to post in our blogs, to make them known.

...why does this feels so much like political speech?

[googoogjoob]

This is a noobish question, but where is it said that they sold the IP to Nicalis? I mean, explicitly, that Nicalis have 100% rights over everything to do with the product. Just because I would like to see it confirmed.

[20:43:33] <+eceva> I guess they have all rights for the game? :/
[20:44:05] <^Nifflas^> They do, but it's still tricky, because it's an opportunity I've still wanted to take

(I can't find any more detailed comment on the issue by Nifflas himself, but he has never said anything to the contrary in all the discussions about Night Game on the Nifflas forum.)

[bento_smile]

This is a noobish question, but where is it said that they sold the IP to Nicalis? I mean, explicitly, that Nicalis have 100% rights over everything to do with the product. Just because I would like to see it confirmed.

[20:43:33] <+eceva> I guess they have all rights for the game? :/
[20:44:05] <^Nifflas^> They do, but it's still tricky, because it's an opportunity I've still wanted to take

(I can't find any more detailed comment on the issue by Nifflas himself, but he has never said anything to the contrary in all the discussions about Night Game on the Nifflas forum.)

If that quote is accurate, then the IP issue is moot, no? If he has no problem, it's no one here's right to kick up a big messy stink on his behalf.

[raigan]

This is a noobish question, but where is it said that they sold the IP to Nicalis? I mean, explicitly, that Nicalis have 100% rights over everything to do with the product. Just because I would like to see it confirmed.

There are a lot of different rights in publishing aside from the copyright of the actual work itself (like ancillary rights, reproduction rights, and moral rights)

If the authors had sold Nicalis a license to use their IP, he would have no control over it and e.g would not be the one to decide whether Cave Story characters could be used in a fan game. Since he apparently does own/control the characters therefore he must own the whole IP rather than merely a license to use said IP for a specific project.

This is just AFAICT since I haven't seen the contract though

[eugeneius]

they are not in the market of freeware creative games(no risk).  They are in the market of very expensive commercial games(high risk).

Why would Cave Story Wii cost a lot more to produce than Pixel's freeware version? There are some costs and difficulties involved in creating a WiiWare title, but not every console game needs a massive budget. Super Meat Boy will be on WiiWare, and it's essentially a "no risk" project, with no external funding. If anything the Wii version should have been quicker and easier to make since it was mostly just a port, all the design work was already done.

I appreciate your point that it's a smart and obvious move for Nicalis to cherry pick the most popular indie developers to work with, but when they do that they should understand that the games come with an existing fanbase who won't be too happy with changes.

[Craig Stern]

This entire conspiracy theory relies on the assumption that Pixel and Nifflas are simultaneously creative geniuses, who have made some of the great works of our time, and at the same time drooling simpletons incapable of signing and understanding a contract or making even the simplest of business decisions that any rational adult makes every day.

You don't have to be a drooling simpleton to not understand contract law. It's complicated stuff, and oftentimes not very intuitive. There are a million and one ways to get screwed in a contract. It doesn't matter if you're a prodigy. If you're not an attorney, you most likely won't even feel the knife sticking out of your back after you sign.

For the love of God, people, if you're presented with any sort of agreement concerning a game you care about, hire an attorney.

[JackieJay]

oh come on this is getting fucking ridiculous...
Now the theory is that pixel and nifflas were screwed when they signed their respective publishing deals?

Not only I highly doubt they would make such an important move without an attorney taking a look at the contract, but you guies are throwing accusations after accusations out of thin air.

Some people here are starting to sound pathetic, for the lack of a better word.

[Craig Stern]

I don't have an opinion on whether Nifflas and Pixel were screwed--I haven't seen their contracts. I just know that it's generally not smart to sign an agreement like that without getting an attorney's opinion.

[Valter]

I've seen a trailer today and the music is TERRIBLEEE.

Lies and slander.





La Mulana Wii looks and sounds like pretty much the best game ever. Aaaargh I need a Wii now

[Hangedman]

I have no knowledge of the contracts, but I still find the dismissal of the fans who made the games popular to be rather odd. Cave Story has a dedicated fanbase who don't like seeing a great game made worse. Nifflas's fans are entirely PC, due to his earlier works...

There's nothing immoral or evil or anything about it, it just seems silly on the face of it.

Let's hope LaMulana makes the transition better.

[JackieJay]

I don't have an opinion on whether Nifflas and Pixel were screwed--I haven't seen their contracts. I just know that it's generally not smart to sign an agreement like that without getting an attorney's opinion.

I wasn't talking about you, sorry if you thought so.

[CiroContinisio]

Lies and slander.




La Mulana Wii looks and sounds like pretty much the best game ever. Aaaargh I need a Wii now

That was just the video I was referring to, and I still think that the music is poorly constructed and has terrible midi instruments.

[Hangedman]

Except that that music is likely unfinished, as the game is as well.

[jakten]

Sounds just like an SNES game to me? If you've heard the updated song 'fearless challenger' it is incredible.

why don't they go and create awesome new original games for themselves?

Heh, because you know for a fact that they aren't?