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[awesometeam22]

I need some up-to-date advice concerning Game Maker and platforms (like Android and HTML 5).  I'm considering getting Game Maker HTML 5 ($99) over the Pro version ($40).  The bonus is that if you buy the HTML 5 version, you also get the upcoming Game Maker:Studio ($99) for free. I just have two questions:

1. I'm unfamiliar with HTML 5, so what are its strengths, as well as its advantages (if any) over Flash as far as game development goes?
2. Is HTML 5 relevant now and should it be a future investment?  I plan to publish my games, and am considering flash portals like Kongregate (which does support HTML 5).

Here is a short article about what I'm talking about:
http://gamemakerblog.com/2012/03/10/gamemaker-studio-pricing-revealed/#comments

Thanks for the help.

[moi]

1-none
2-it will be huge in 2035

[larsiusprime]

HTML 5:

Pros:
-Will run on an iPhone/iPad (maybe)
-Sometimes runs faster than flash (on *certain* platforms)
-Sometimes uses less memory/cpu than flash (on *certain* platforms)
-Non-proprietary

Cons:
-Javascript (inferior* language to As3)
-Harder to distribute via portals (many files rather than 1 swf)
-Audio remains broken
-Incompatibile/inconsistent in various browsers
-Often slower than flash
-No excellent tools just yet
-Client side code is an open book, don't even have to decompile
-Security holes (it's just arbitrary javascript!)
-No guarantee it will ever be 100% consistent or supported cross-platform
-Implementation is entirely up to browser developers
-Few free game portals support HTML5

Flash

Pros:
-Runs pretty much everywhere
-Excellent tools are available
-As3 is a superior* language to JS
-Consistent across all browsers
-Dead easy to distribute (single swf)
-Basically all free game portals support flash

Cons:
-Proprietary
-Has some CPU/memory issues
-Doesn't run on iPhone/iPad
-Not supported on Linux for future versions
--(But old versions still work)
--(also, Linux is a pretty tiny market)
-Security holes
-Adobe wants to tax you 9% of your revenues over 50K if you use both new API's

*My opinion, but it's widely shared.


Any advantage HTML5 has right now over flash is undermined by it's biggest weakness - there is no guarantee it will ever be consistently implemented cross-platform, which is a feature flash has today.

Sure, you can't see flash content in your iphone/ipad, but you can compile and distribute it as an AIR App and get it on there that way.

I'll be the first to criticize Flash for it's many shortcomings, but HTML5 just hasn't arrived yet and there's no promise it ever will. I would love for it to, but it's hard to deliver on "write once, run everywhere" when you leave it up to each platform holder to implement your virtual machine, especially when that platform holder has no incentive to do so.

[Dacke]

Flash is a dying web platform [1]. HTML5-ish is the future web platform.

Flash is however much more mature, so if you don't care about the ethical aspects it is clearly the superior choice right now.

Also, you don't have to actually write JavaScript in JavaScript. I write stuff in Java and compile it to JavaScript. Such compiled JavaScript is probably more efficient than anything I could write by hand.

edit: But on the other hand, it is quite possible that GameMaker:HTML5 overcomes most of these problems. So I wouldn't pay too much attention to me, moi or larsiusprime. Because it doesn't sound like we know what we're talking when it comes to GM:HTML5.

[awesometeam22]

I get that Flash is widespread and very popular so I didn't really have any doubts about Flash.  My only curiosity was wether HTML 5 was worth considering as far as game development goes.  I'll consider all the good advice here. Thanks.

But I guess if I was to just concentrate squarely on flash I wouldn't be losing anything by ignoring HTML 5.

[Dacke]

Well, you would loose me as a potential player. But apart from that, no, you wouldn't loose much.

[larsiusprime]

The holy grail solution ultimately is something that lets you compile down to flash/Java/HTML5 as you choose.

HaXe supposedly offers this functionality, but I haven't used it yet so I'm not sure whether it delivers. GM's HTML5 functionality would be a similar setup (sans flash/java), though I can't speak to the quality of code it generates.

I have high hopes for HTML5 for the future, but for now I don't think it's quite ready, though apparently there were a lot of HTML5 games in the latest Ludum Dare - give that a look and see how they run for you.

[Dacke]

Google's PlayN lets you write games in Java that compile to HTML5, JavaVM, Android and Flash. But it's still pretty WIP.

[larsiusprime]

That's super cool! I'll have to keep my eyes on it.

[Dacke]

Looks like their promotional page is out of sync with the actual project http://code.google.com/p/playn/ . It is currently not able to compile to Flash, but on the other hand you do get iOS support.

PlayN is a cross-platform game abstraction library for writing games that compile to:

    Desktop Java
    HTML5 Browsers
    Android
    iOS
    Flash*

* The Flash backend is currently not working and in need of a maintainer. If you are excited about developing games that run in HTML5 and Flash from the same codebase, please come help!

[Desert Dog]

2. Is HTML 5 relevant now and should it be a future investment?  I plan to publish my games, and am considering flash portals like Kongregate (which does support HTML 5).

Make them work well on mobiles, and you'll be getting good cash offers from sponsors, too. It's a new market, and as such, can/should be viewed as 'risky'. (e.g. one sponsor I was talking to just 'disappeared') but the market is there, and heck, mobile web games are pretty much the most accessible game that a solo developer can make. Scale wise, they're very small!

And I use GM-html5. I love it.

[Hima]

I can't even play Angry Bird made by PlayN and I'm using Chrome  
 
And most of the HTML5 game right now work sluggishly on iPhone4s. Game that works well on desktop browser took longer to make or more complicate than just using Flash or Unity. 

The only reason to go for HTML5 game on mobile right now is that if you're going to make a porn game which isn't allowed on Apple Appstore 

I think moi pretty much sum everything up for you. If you want to get yourself ready for HTML5, maybe just learn javascript, HTML and css3. But no need to go into anything advance yet. Solid background on these should help you choose your HTML5  game engine in the future better.

If I were you, I wouldn't get it. I don't like GM workflow in general, and I think there'll be better engines in the future for HTML5. By the time HTML5 become playable on mobile device, I'm sure you'll have many more choices. Right now, universal tools are growing like mushroom. Monkey, PlayN, Corona SDK, GameMaker, Unity, cocos2d-x, AppGameKit, etc.

[Desert Dog]

By the time HTML5 become playable on mobile device

Hah, yea.... that's unfortunate news, because html5 games are all about mobiles...!

Check out this guy's porfolio:
http://www.spacemonstergames.co.uk/games.php

Really simple, old-school games. 'Clones' even. And yes, they work well on mobiles, and yes, he does license them, and yes, he has made thousands of dollars. I know he's made more money with those games, which he works on part-time, than some teams make with the game they worked on for 1+ years, and then sold on PC.

My own (incomplete, WIP) porfolio is composed of games made with GM-html5. And yes, they work well on mobiles, too, (and the ones that don't just need some tweaking, tis all!  ) And yes, I do deal with publishers, too, and make money(although shonky art work is a barrier, mind-ye!)

So no, html5 doesn't have great sound support, and no, html5 struggles with cool effects, and speed wise. But heck, it's an accessible platform for an independent developer.

[Hima]

I just tried your game on my Galaxy S. In the card matching game, the flipping animation is already slow and lagging. If simple game like this still has speed problem, it's hard to call it playable

The game on space monster game works fine though and I'm surprised to see it work well. Thanks for the link

And I'm sure there are people making money from it. At least the guy who made Impact did, and it's just from advertisement not even publisher. However, I still feel that you won't miss much if you don't invest in it right now.

[awesometeam22]

So if I consider making 2D games, and probably publishing them to portals and mobile devices, what do you guys consider are the best tools to go for?

I've been checking out and using Action Script 3 and Game Maker.

And just what exactly is the programming tool or engine that most developers are using to make mobile games?  I was kinda confused hearing about how Flash is not focusing on mobile games, and then folks also saying that HTML 5 sucks on mobile.

[Desert Dog]

I just tried your game on my Galaxy S. In the card matching game, the flipping animation is already slow and lagging. If simple game like this still has speed problem, it's hard to call it playable

Yeah, that's one of the things about html5. It has weakness's. Sound support is a big one. Scaling is another, (which is how I did my flipping animation).
I thought I could get away with it, and I kinda did (most other devices run it no problems) but you've got to be careful with your design. So a pretty typical coding technique was just poor design work in html5.

And spacemonsters guy is a legend.

So if I consider making 2D games, and probably publishing them to portals and mobile devices, what do you guys consider are the best tools to go for?

I've been checking out and using Action Script 3 and Game Maker.

And just what exactly is the programming tool or engine that most developers are using to make mobile games?  I was kinda confused hearing about how Flash is not focusing on mobile games, and then folks also saying that HTML 5 sucks on mobile.

Well, you know about GM-Studio, so you know about the extensions it will have for exporting to Android, iPhones, etc. That + html5 provides the mobile web game element.

I think GM is a great tool. The only factor here is cost. $100 for the base GM-studio + $200 for each add-on, can add up.

If you want to go html5, then hey, you can just dive straight into javascript, in notepad(++). Absolutely free, and if you have net, there are tutorials, and resources you can collect. Can't get much more cheaper, or convenient than that.

You really need someone who's in the flash know-how to tell you about Flash, and the various opportunities that it opens up to you, but flashpunk is a good(excellent) free library, that works with a free compiler. And I'm pretty sure you can compile them so that they work on iPhones, etc, although I don't think as web games (just app's.. app store, etc)

You can't go very wrong with Flash, it's so widely used. And I also think you won't go wrong with Html5, either, but opinions differ. 

[Hima]

Flash itself may not focus on mobile but AIR does. With AIR, you can convert an swf to a native iOS and Android application. All this can be done for free without having to pay for Flash CS. You can use flixel or flashpunk library, or you can go for a gpu-based library like starling or ND2D. All these are free as well.

The downside of this is that you have to pay for the license to sell your game on that platforms, which is unlike HTML5 where you can just upload the game and you're good to go.