Hima
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« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2010, 09:44:47 AM » |
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I usually just shut up and try not to argue. I might discuss about it, but I'll try not to act too defensively. I've seen artists act too defensively so many times and it gets real ugly :/ The scenario basically goes like this.
A : Hey, could you take a look at this pic? I'd like you to see if there's anything I can improve.
Me : I think the hands look weird. The angle is wrong.
A : Oh, this is an old pic. I wasn't good then but I'm good now.
Me : Okay...I line is kinda shaky though. You could clean it up a bit.
A : Yeah, I used mouse, what do you expect? Not really used to it yet.
Me : The choice of color is weird too. I don't think these colors go together really well.
A : Uh, hello? Old pic, remember? Also, my monitor is quite weird.
Me : The pose is off too. I'm sure you'd fall if you pose like this in real life.
A : Yeah, but I like it this way so I won't change it.
Me : ....
A : So, what could I improve?
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powly
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« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2010, 10:07:11 AM » |
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Hima, that's exactly what I tend to do. Got to hire someone to observe me and hit me if I do it.
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Stane
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« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2010, 03:31:26 PM » |
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Here we come to another interesting topic. How do you answer in a constructive way to criticism (constructive or otherwise)? People taking an effort to try out your game and write some kind of remark deserve an answer. Sometimes criticism is valid but for some reason objective or subjective an author is not in a position to address the problem. Fix might be beyond his (or anybodies) means/knowledge/available time... still some answer is required.
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BoxedLunch
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« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2010, 03:39:23 PM » |
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I just shake off most criticism if it's just random insults. But then I find their adress and leave a bag of flaming gasoline on their house. But if it's necessary I listen. We all should.
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hatu
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« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2010, 01:36:30 AM » |
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Here we come to another interesting topic. How do you answer in a constructive way to criticism (constructive or otherwise)? People taking an effort to try out your game and write some kind of remark deserve an answer. Sometimes criticism is valid but for some reason objective or subjective an author is not in a position to address the problem. Fix might be beyond his (or anybodies) means/knowledge/available time... still some answer is required.
You mean answer to the person? How about just thanks. I think the worst thing you can do is start defending every point because no one cares.
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Hima
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« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2010, 07:38:22 AM » |
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You mean answer to the person? How about just thanks. I think the worst thing you can do is start defending every point because no one cares.
I just experienced something like that recently. A guy posted a topic ask for criticisms on his comics. He dealt with criticism, constructive criticisms mind you, by being sarcastic and telling them it's their fault they don't understand his comic. Asking why he has to be so hostile instead of have some manners, his reason is that the creators need to fight in order to show those critics that they cannot look down on the creators and say whatever they want. I was speechless.
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Stane
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2010, 07:44:32 AM » |
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Its an usual psychological trap I guess... not that it justifies this kind of behavior.
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jotapeh
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« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2010, 03:49:22 PM » |
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In my mind, the user is always right. As the creator of a game, I am actually one of the last people to have a clear interpretation of what impression this game is making on others. I don't have to listen to it all, but for me, the more honest the criticism, the better! And it only hurts if it was something I worked really hard on and thought was brilliant that everyone else seems to think is bunk (see: my latest Assemblee entry )
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FatHat
Level 1
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« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2010, 05:20:33 PM » |
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I might be weird, but I actually like the criticism. Praise is hard to read -- is it out of social nicety or did they genuinely like it? Criticism is more honest, and it means they've put thought into it. Highly polarized feelings are the best -- it means what you've made hit a nerve somehow, whether good or bad. Silence or faint praise is really the worst response -- you can't get anything out of that, and it's usually a bad sign.
The main thing with criticism I've learned is: listen to what people dislike, but take any thoughts on why with a grain of salt, and generally how to fix it should be something you figure out on your own.
Also realize who your audience is before paying too much attention to someone's opinions. If they're not your audience, what they think doesn't matter that much. The /most/ important part about defining an audience is knowing who your audience ISN'T. If your audience is everybody, that's as useless as your audience being nobody.
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Alex Vostrov
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« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2010, 07:41:11 PM » |
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How to deal with criticism - Part 1
Well, the first problem is finding out where the critics live. It's hard to deal with them if they're on the other side of the internet. I suggest luring them with home-made cake. Try classic lines such as: "I baked a delicious cake for you, can you tell me what address to send it to?"
In the next part of the program, we will reveal what to do with people who criticize you once you've found them.
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FatHat
Level 1
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« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2010, 08:19:22 PM » |
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How to deal with criticism - Part 1
Well, the first problem is finding out where the critics live. It's hard to deal with them if they're on the other side of the internet. I suggest luring them with home-made cake. Try classic lines such as: "I baked a delicious cake for you, can you tell me what address to send it to?"
In the next part of the program, we will reveal what to do with people who criticize you once you've found them.
So, if I understand correctly... if I make fun of you, then you'll bake me a cake? AWESOME! You have the face of a jerk. JERKFACE. What say you? Where's my cake?
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2010, 08:51:57 PM » |
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Here we come to another interesting topic. How do you answer in a constructive way to criticism (constructive or otherwise)? People taking an effort to try out your game and write some kind of remark deserve an answer. Sometimes criticism is valid but for some reason objective or subjective an author is not in a position to address the problem. Fix might be beyond his (or anybodies) means/knowledge/available time... still some answer is required.
it's often not necessary to answer, just say 'thanks for the input'. sometimes you may want to explain why you chose things the way you did and why you aren't going to change it just because one guy wants you to, and that's fine, but you can't reasonably be expected to do that for every single piece of feedback.
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jakten
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« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2010, 02:28:49 AM » |
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I remember when I was younger I was very defensive towards criticisms and I'd try to come up with excuses. But then I started to think why I do what I do. I want to make people happy, entertain and inspire others so if they can't understand what I am doing then I need to listen to them and change. So nowadays I love getting criticism providing its constructive and not completely ignorant. Whether the criticism is good or bad it's a great way to learn I think, especially if the critics are highly knowledgeable. Praise is nice to keep me motivated, keep me in good spirits. Criticism helps me evolve. The only thing that worries me is silence. If I put my work up somewhere for critique and receive no responses it eats at my brain. At least when someone comments negatively I know there was something in my piece that inspired them to tear it apart. If I receive nothing to me it means I have not produced something worth even an insult. Kind of crushing.
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« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 02:42:58 AM by jakten »
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Skofo
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« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2010, 07:29:45 PM » |
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Does it hurt?
Be honest.
No. If it is constructive, I pretty much get off on it. I absolutely love becoming better at the things I do, and other people's perspectives are a very powerful and handy tool for that.
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If you wish to make a video game from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
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Drges
Level 0
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« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2010, 12:37:42 AM » |
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Yeah, it hurts sometimes, but it's great to have (more-so than praise, IMO)
I think the most important skill to learn when handling critique is to be able to determine when the critic is right and accepting it. Knee-jerk reactions are not good in either direction (either accepting critique wholly or rejecting it outright).
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Hajo
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« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2010, 05:11:24 AM » |
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Does it hurt?
Be honest.
It depends a bit. I had critiques like "Your game is too ugly to be played". That sure hurt. There are critiques like "It would be better if I would not have to click each tile, but could select a group". Such usually hurts less or not at all. I think I'm very sensitive to critique. So I seldom ask, or carefully select the people whom I ask. But I'm aware that most kind of critique, including the "Your game is too ugly to be played" can be made into something helpful, once the hurt has dropped. In regard to way to respond - the more you feel hurt, the better will be a short "Thank you for the feedback, I'll see how I can improve my project with your points". If you feel comfortable with the things said, it can be good to discuss. Defending leads to bad arguments, and it's really tricky to get that done in a good and postive style. Better be brief and friendly, if possible.
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Per aspera ad astra
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Kadoba
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« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2010, 08:50:23 AM » |
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It depends a bit. I had critiques like "Your game is too ugly to be played". That sure hurt. There are critiques like "It would be better if I would not have to click each tile, but could select a group". Such usually hurts less or not at all.
Baseless comments like that are exactly the ones that need to be ignored. If you address them at all ask them to be more specific or explain you did the best you could with your given resources.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2010, 09:50:20 PM » |
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saying a game is too ugly to be played isn't necessarily baseless -- sometimes a game really is too ugly to be played. he/she may have been putting it harshly to use those exact words, but that's still valuable feedback that one should work on one's art some more.
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Stegersaurus
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« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2010, 10:02:03 PM » |
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What about when half the people love your art style, then the other half think it looks ugly and stupid? Though to be fair, the second half is the user population of GameTrailers comments.
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team_q
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« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2010, 10:59:16 PM » |
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Comments threads are the second lowest form of Internet criticism in my mind.
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