Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1292646 Posts in 57370 Topics- by 48420 Members - Latest Member: dml

April 28, 2017, 10:06:52 am

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsCommunityCompetitionsOld CompetitionsProcedural GenerationTest Pilot [FINISHED]
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Print
Author Topic: Test Pilot [FINISHED]  (Read 47674 times)
Crackerblocks
Level 1
*


jus_10s@yahoo.ca
View Profile WWW
« on: May 09, 2008, 09:00:58 pm »

Renamed from ghetto planes. yes, "Test Pilot" took every ounce of my creativity.

She's done like dinner.

Link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?imvyy0myzlm







Short answer: Randomly build a plane, then try to fly it.

I have the random sizing and arrangement of parts almost done. Next step is physics (or the bastardizing thereof)

There's just 1 wing, tail, fuselage, and engine so far, but I'm hoping to have some truely monsterous configurations eventually. Add more engines to go faster, add more wings to lift the engines, add more fuselage to support the wings... to infinity.

The gameplay aspect is kind of half baked. still searching for simple ideas.


« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 09:36:06 pm by Crackerblocks » Logged
William Broom
Level 10
*****


formerly chutup


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2008, 10:30:54 pm »

This sounds like it could be extremely fun. If you get the physics working well, maybe you could make it a bit of a physics/sandbox game? Crashing your plane into piles of boxes, that sort of thing?
Logged

FishyBoy
Level 7
**


Make like a tree and get the hell out of here


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 05:16:39 am »

Holy crap, that sounds ridiculous and awesome all at once. Definitely want to see what's next.
Logged
Crackerblocks
Level 1
*


jus_10s@yahoo.ca
View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 09:35:36 am »

Well, at first the physics will just be thrust/lift/drag and a big hard line for the ground. Maybe later I'll try using an actual physics engine (Box2D).

For now I'm thinking you get one tank of gas, and score points for distance travelled, max altitude, doing stunts, and landing safely.
Logged
Massena
Level 4
****


Satisfied.


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2008, 12:33:58 pm »

This idea has a lot of potential fun. You should finish it, whether or not you make it for the compo! Good luck!  Smiley
Logged

Crackerblocks
Level 1
*


jus_10s@yahoo.ca
View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 08:07:58 am »

News Flash!: Aerodynamics is Hard

I mean people get degrees in this stuff. So I've spent too time trying to be physically accurate, and not enough time on clever hacks. But fear not, today will be the hackocalypse. Expect a playable demo friday-ish.
Logged
FARTRON
Level 4
****


the last man in space


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 08:25:25 am »

I really like the looks of this.

But I want bi-planes. And tri-planes. And maybe that seven-winged plane they show collapsing in black and white footage.
Logged

Everything that was once directly lived has receded into a representation. - debord
PHeMoX
Level 2
**


"All bugs are belong to us."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2008, 07:58:12 am »

Nice idea, looking forward to this. Also, yeah, if possible, the idea with the tri-planes sounds good.

Quote
Hackocalypse

Hahahaa, that's a pretty good title for a game actually!
Logged

"Fun is rule."
Crackerblocks
Level 1
*


jus_10s@yahoo.ca
View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2008, 07:53:52 am »



Grab the demo: http://www.mediafire.com/?tv1z2w2j5hz

Would love to hear feedback and ideas for actual gameplay.

Instructions are in-game. There's 2 throttle meters. The first is for your prop, the second is for your jets (much more powerful). You won't always have the luxury of jets in the final game.

The default plane is a bit of a slug, but it's good for testing. If you're having trouble taking off: set elevators to even, throttle up to almost max, give it a couple seconds to build speed, then tap the elevators (down arrow) gradually.

On the to-do list now:
- bi-planes and 7 wing-planes (8 would just be silly)
- some imagineering, sound and graphics
- rolling the plane so you can go the other direction
- show the plane from top-view on the hud and during rolls so you can see what your wingspan is.

Logged
seregrail7
Level 1
*


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2008, 09:57:33 am »

I like it do far, controls are good. Just need some sort of score or goal, and maybe a way to save your plane so you can challenge others to beat your score with that plane?
Logged
LaughingCrow
Level 0
**


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2008, 03:08:44 pm »

I tried the demo, and I liked it Wink it was hard to get used to at first, bu tin the end I was able to loop (is that what it's called?). It was great fun.

Maybe you should add some sort of test (can be randomly generated maybe?) that players must do in order to prove they can use the randomly generated plane. But that's your decision.
Logged

ichi
Level 0
**


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2008, 03:57:35 pm »

It was more random than procedural, but the demo is fun!
How about a PG course that involves you flying through rings? (sometimes requiring loops and such, similiar to Nights)
Logged
Crackerblocks
Level 1
*


jus_10s@yahoo.ca
View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2008, 05:25:47 pm »

Quote
maybe a way to save your plane so you can challenge others to beat your score with that plane?

yup that's on the to-do list. It'll just be typing in a seed like some of the other games are doing.

Quote
It was more random than procedural

Agreed, and it makes me a little sad. This idea is fun, but so far it's a stretch to call it PG. Maybe I'll do something more PG with the course/test creation.
Logged
Shambrook
Level 2
**



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2008, 10:30:20 pm »

I had a heap of fun just fucking around with nothing to do. Deffintly a great base to build a game off of.
Logged
Caio
Level 10
*****


KAH-yoo


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2008, 10:30:31 am »

Did you update the demo? First time I played I could do nothing but loop incessantly Undecided I tried it again today, though, and managed to fly the plane very well. I like the controls. What kind of challenge or gameplay modes can we expect?
Logged
Ed
Level 5
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2008, 11:50:05 am »

I had a lot of fun with this Smiley
(the very loopy version... yesterday i think)

How about a plot about a test pilot for a really dodgy airline (or aircaft manufacturer) - you have to prove that X number of planes pass quality control by flying them along a course.

In gameplay terms, flying a challenge with a number of different planes would even out some randomness but still be an interesting challenge.
Logged

two4teezee
Level 0
*


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 10:35:38 am »

Just registered to reply to this thread =)

This is great, lots of potential and I think it's really amusing (I'm getting my Master's in Aero) and good fun. I probably just spent about 40min just flying around!

This game reminds me of Dogfight, a German freeware game that I highly recommend if you've never played it (http://dogfight.kuto.de/, once you download you can go in the options menu and select English as your language). You can make many parallels between that game and others that have come before it, mainly Dogfight for Amiga.

I think the randomizing aspect is AWESOME. What about this: could the gamer pick his parts and have the game kinda throw them together for him? In a Build-A-Plane mode or something like that...

Keep up the good work!
Logged
Crackerblocks
Level 1
*


jus_10s@yahoo.ca
View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 08:34:42 pm »

Quote
How about a plot about a test pilot for a really dodgy airline (or aircaft manufacturer)

Excellent. I'm doing something similar to this. I just need a good name now. "Old Timey Test Pilot" or somesuch.

Quote
This is great, lots of potential and I think it's really amusing (I'm getting my Master's in Aero) and good fun. I probably just spent about 40min just flying around!

Awesome, glad you like it. The physics has been much improved since that demo. I forgot to account for the fact that planes are mostly hollow (the test plane weighs 100 tons and all the other forces were jacked up to compensate). I got my masters in Aero from wikipedia two weeks ago Tongue Now if only I could find an explanation of how some planes can fly inverted.

Quote
This game reminds me of Dogfight

pretty cool game. It's probably more fun with 2 players. My main inspiration was an old arcade game called Two Tigers.

The main issue with doing a side view flying game is that you can only see about 3 seconds in front of you. So dogfighting and bombing is impossible without always looking at radar, which is no fun imho.

Quote
I think the randomizing aspect is AWESOME. What about this: could the gamer pick his parts and have the game kinda throw them together for him? In a Build-A-Plane mode or something like that...

Yup I'd love to do that eventually.
Logged
two4teezee
Level 0
*


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2008, 01:27:02 am »

Quote
Now if only I could find an explanation of how some planes can fly inverted.

I can take care of that for you. Please bear with me as I'll get a little technical but I think going the extra distance will give you a better understanding of what's happening. I will take a few shortcuts though but feel free to ask questions, I'll answer them to the best of my abilities.

Welcome to Ghetto Aerodynamics 101!

In order to understand fluid flow over an airfoil and thus a wing, we start at the most basic case, which is flow over a flat plate. We do well here to define some quantities:

FLAT PLATE FLOW / BOUNDARY LAYER



- Uinfinity is the "relative wind speed". Imagine the object is stationary, then this is how fast the fluid moves over the object (we will assume uniform flow for this discussion).
- Viscosity (absolute) is usually denoted by the Greek letter nu. High viscosity fluid would be molasses, low viscosity would be air. High nu = bad, that's why we don't fly through molasses, much less swim through them!
- Density is rho and you know what that is.

For the diagram above, BL stands for boundary layer. Anytime that a viscous fluid interfaces with something else (a solid, another fluid, a gas, whatever), you'll have this boundary layer thing form up, of which the thickness delta(x) is a function of the distance parallel to the fluid flow. The boundary layer is the volume of flow in shear stress and as mentioned will always occur at an interface. The velocity profile inside the boundary layer is classically given as a parabolic distribution as a distance perpendicular to the flow motion, thus u(y). Velocity at the boundary (y=0) will always be zero; the fluid is stagnant here. Velocity at the BL boundary (y=delta(x)) will be Uinfinity. The fluid that is not in shear is called "potential flow". That means we can ignore the viscous terms
in that region and that leaves our governing equations as first order derivatives, much easier to solve than before (viscous terms are second order).

OKAY! NEEEEXT!

Now we can talk about flow over a flat plate with some angle of attack, for both inviscid and viscous cases.

FLAT PLATE FLOW AT SOME ANGLE OF ATTACK



- Alpha is the angle of attack of the object relate to the relative wind. Mouthful.

A flat plate in inviscid flow can produce lift because Mr. Newton says that if you cause a displacement in the fluid (in this case, you making it change directions and then letting it exit at a different position) you'll get some net resultant force. Super.

However there is also a viscous explanation for lift and the both have to be incorporated as one. Remember the boundary layer thing? Now it's formed up on the top surface of the flat plate, but the bottom is being bombarded by fluid so it doesn't get to grow like the other does. So if you're a fluid molecule and you're coming to this thing, to you it doesn't look like a flat plate anymore, it looks more like a flat bottomed half eclipse thingy. This incurs even more fluid displacement. This fluid displacement translates to a pressure gradient, which we'll talk about soon. Anyway asAlpha gets bigger, your BL gets bigger and bigger to the point where you get something called separation. When separation occurs, the fluid isn't adhered to the surface anymore and usually that spells trouble (s form of stall).

This is why paper airplanes can "fly". There are many explanations for lift, and a lot of the ones that you will find on the internet (gasp Wiki gasp) may be erroneous.

ALMOST THERE! TWO MORE STEPS!

FLOW OVER CYLINDERS



Alright now picture these cylinders as being infinite in and out of your screen, and you have some uniform flow over them. If the cylinder is stationary, you would expect the streamlines in the flow to look identical on the top and on the bottom. The cylinder produces drag but no useful lift. If you start spinning the cylinder at some rotational velocity Omega, now you're doing something. The flow will remain attached to the surface longer in the direction of the spin (think of this as the BL being dragged by the cylinder) and shorter in the opposite direction of the spin. So now you're displacing the fluid in a useful way! You're generating a change in pressure, which is lift. This is why baseball pitchers and ping pong players can curve balls. This is called the Magnus Effect.

AIRFOIL ANATOMY



- LE is the leading edge. Velocity here is zero (stagnation point).
- TE is the trailing edge.
- c is the chord of the airfoil, or the length from LE to TE.
- mc is the Mean Camber line, and is a measure of the curvature of the airfoil. An airfoil with no camber is symmetrical (top and bottom halves are identical). Camber can be measure locally as the distance between mc and the chord line.
- t is the local thickness.
- AC is the Aerodynamic Center. All aerodynamic forces occur about this point (lift, drag, etc). Generally it's at about 0.25c but not always.

I keep saying lift (and drag too) is all about a change in pressure. Let's talk math. If you were to take the surface integral over the spinning cylinder (or over your airfoil or over your wing!) of all the local pressures, in and out of the screen and in the vertital direction, you'd get lift. You can do the same thing to get drag but you integrate in the direction in and out of the screen and in the horizontal direction. This is only one for of drag, called pressure drag, or drag due to lift.

These equations can be easily rewritten in algebraic form as follows,

L = 1/2 * rho * Uinfinity^2 * S * Cl

D = 1/2 * rho * Uinfinity^2 * S * Cd

- S is the wing surface area.
- Cl is the coefficient of lift
- Cd is the coefficient of drag, both of which are dimensionless parameters and can be found experimentally or numerically. They are usually functions of the Reynolds Number, the Mach Number, the angle of attack and of course the geometry of the airfoil.

This is for a wing. For an airfoil, the S term becomes only c, so that you have force per unit depth. Side note, if you go up too high, rho goes down, you might not produce enough lift. If you go too slow, you might not produce enough lift either (another form of stall).

I'm sure you've seen these, but they really do stem from an approximation of those surface integral equations.

ALRIGHT!!!



A plane is in equilibrium (not accelerating, not falling out of the sky, just straight and level flight) when the summation of all resultant forces (Lift, Weight, Thrust and Drag) equals zero.

Haha so HOW can airplanes fly upside down?

Some have symmetrical airfoils. Since they're symmetrical, they produce no lift at 0deg AOA. You just slide your nose up a little smidgen if any at all and you still get positive lift. If you have huge jets strapped onto your rig you can use brute force to keep you in the air.

Some planes have cambered airfoils. Now that gets tricky, so you have to use your elevator (horizontal stabilizer) to give yourself "nose up attitude". What that does for you is really more about the thrust than anything else. You're pointing your engines a bit down so now your thrust has a vertical and horizontal component which can be expressed as a trig function of your angle of attack. The vertical component is the bit that will say "no" to your weight and "negative" lift and thus keep your airborne. Yeehaw.

Either way that's usually why you don't see airplanes fly inverted too slow, they basically rely on thrust to get them going.

Sorry I got soooo carried away. It's my passion. Sorry if the little pictures are hard to understand. Anyway hope this helped or if anything, spurred some interest.

Quote
The main issue with doing a side view flying game is that you can only see about 3 seconds in front of you. So dogfighting and bombing is impossible without always looking at radar, which is no fun imho.

Yeah Dogfight uses a little trick where when you get going fast the camera shifts a bit so you can see further ahead. I forget if it zooms out some too to give you greater perspective? But that would be a way to deal with that problem. Challenging nonetheless. That game is pretty hard man =/

All said and done, if aerodynamics and how airplanes (or helis) fly is a subject of interest and you wanna learn some cool crap, I suggest this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Model-Aircraft-Aerodynamics-Martin-Simons/dp/1854861905/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211533249&sr=8-1

You can get it used for like $15 and it's totally worth it. Don't let the title fool you, this stuff works for any aircraft and the book does and awesome job at introducing all sorts of very neat and important aerodynamic concepts. I'm Audi 5k.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 01:35:26 am by two4teezee » Logged
Hideous
That's cool.
Level 10
*****


3D models are the best


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2008, 02:07:01 am »

What I don't understand is how people could have so much fun with this, when all you could do was fly a randomized plane, and possibly loop with it Huh?

Sorry, I don't get it. Sad
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic