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[s0]

Heh, I'm not actually that big on nostalgia. I just think it's a bit sad how it seems to keep some people from enjoying great new games, that's what I meant to imply with my post.

[eva]

whether corexii liked dragon age 2 or not doesnt matter because his original post read "worth playing at least once" and "pirate, don't support bioware"
doesn't sound like testing

[deathtotheweird]

derp

what about those of us who could give a shit less about the video game companies. I wouldn't cry at all if every major developer went out of business today. They rarely do anything new or interesting these days.

fuck Donkey Kong Country Returns. the original Donkey Kong Country owns and the new one sucks. they can't even get that simple thing right, so I'd rather just download a rom and play it instead.

[Theophilus]

fuck Donkey Kong Country Returns. the original Donkey Kong Country owns and the new one sucks.

[Core Xii]

whether corexii liked dragon age 2 or not doesnt matter because his original post read "worth playing at least once" and "pirate, don't support bioware"
doesn't sound like testing

Well that's what it is. Despite being a disappointing experience, it was still an experience worth having if you've nothing better to do (like me at the time). You quoted me out of context:

Is Dragon Age 2 worth playing? ...Yes, once, if you don't have better new games to play.

A game I want to play even when I have "better" things to do is a game worth buying. Like Counter-Strike: Source.

[William Broom]

whether corexii liked dragon age 2 or not doesnt matter because his original post read "worth playing at least once" and "pirate, don't support bioware"
doesn't sound like testing

Well that's what it is. Despite being a disappointing experience, it was still an experience worth having if you've nothing better to do (like me at the time).

You had nothing better to do? Were you locked inside a room with a computer that can't do anything except play DA2?

[SirNiko]

fuck Donkey Kong Country Returns. the original Donkey Kong Country owns and the new one sucks. they can't even get that simple thing right, so I'd rather just download a rom and play it instead.

If the new one sucks why would you download it? Wouldn't you instead download a game that doesn't suck... like the original DKC?

[Ben_Hurr]

I would encourage ignoring the game completely rather than pirating it, if one was making a "this game sucks and I don't support the developer" stance.

[Core Xii]

I would encourage ignoring the game completely rather than pirating it, if one was making a "this game sucks and I don't support the developer" stance.

Ignoring other people's mistakes only make you more likely to repeat them. Of course, I'm a game designer, so perhaps this doesn't hold true for the masses. But I did state that in my review. And I'm assuming we're all game developers here, yes?

You had nothing better to do? Were you locked inside a room with a computer that can't do anything except play DA2?

I'm on the computer 24/7, so I run out of things to do fairly quickly, sometimes having to resort to less than enjoyable experiences, such as finishing DA2.

[paste]

Ignoring other people's mistakes only make you more likely to repeat them. Of course, I'm a game designer, so perhaps this doesn't hold true for the masses. But I did state that in my review. And I'm assuming we're all game developers here, yes?

Then you are getting a benefit from someone's product.  You owe them money. 

And please don't take this as an accusation, but I'm curious as to what are some of the games you've designed.

[Core Xii]

Then you are getting a benefit from someone's product.  You owe them money. 

That's an interesting point. But used incorrectly, it basically means every work anyone has ever done is worth paying for because even if it was bad work, you at least learned how not to do it. That's obviously not what you meant; But still, exactly how much is it worth then? Clearly it's unethical to ask the same price for bad work as good simply on the basis that you learn how not to do it.

I think I have to disagree with this idea; There's plenty of people doing things wrong, all the time. I fail to see how that means I owe them anything. Shouldn't we reward success rather than failure? But it is an interesting point nonetheless.

And please don't take this as an accusation, but I'm curious as to what are some of the games you've designed.

You'll be seeing my projects in the future when I solve some of the problems in my life right now, preventing me from working efficiently.

[paste]

I think I have to disagree with this idea; There's plenty of people doing things wrong, all the time. I fail to see how that means I owe them anything. Shouldn't we reward success rather than failure? But it is an interesting point nonetheless.

They're doing the legwork for you though, failing where you would have and saving you time.  Maybe they don't deserve a reward for it, but they do deserve compensation for time and labor.

[BubblePipeMedia]

It's against the EULA. As I recall, Nintendo instruction manuals always had an EULA page at the back that said something like "backup or archival copies are unnecessary and not allowed" or whatever. So there you go.

I believe it doesn't matter if it is in their EULA. There was a ruling that all purchased software is legally allowed ONE backup copy. Then again, I'm not a lawyer. But it is the same reason you no longer see Nintendo saying 'now kids, don't loan your games to your friends because it is ILLEGAL!'. Which is to say, they were overreaching their boundaries. Then again, I'm NOT a lawyer, so who knows. There's all sorts of weird laws and stipulations.

[BubblePipeMedia]

Also, while I'm all up for debates, and have many interesting thoughts, there's a reason decisions on laws like these go to the highest courts. It's complicated. You are dealing with hypothetical money, intellectual properties, and now, with downloadable titles instead of physical medium.

It isn't cut and dry, and I look forward to the day where I can turn in my copy of a PS1 title and get a subscription to the 'game' and then pay $5 for updated textures, and pay NOTHING for straight up ports. I suspect we will have to wait a while for this to happen.

[Core Xii]

They're doing the legwork for you though, failing where you would have and saving you time.  Maybe they don't deserve a reward for it, but they do deserve compensation for time and labor.

Who's to say I would have? I think BioWare made absolutely terrible mistakes I most certainly would not have made myself. Should we pay babies for demonstrating how not to walk? Or talk? Obviously not. I just don't see an economy around failing, even if it's an interesting point. There's an infinite number of ways to do something wrong, but you only need one to do it right. I don't support developers who screw things up, and I don't really see how that can be used as an argument against "piracy". If piracy is wrong, and you should reward failure, then developers should pay pirates for showing how not to acquire and play games, just as much as pirates should pay developers for making bad games. It's illogical.

[PaleFox]

If piracy is wrong, and you should reward failure, then developers should pay pirates for showing how not to acquire and play games, just as much as pirates should pay developers for making bad games. It's illogical.

Are you

Are you even listening to yourself you stupid bastard

This is the most nonsensical thing you have said in this thread and I am pretty sure you are just trying to justify yourself so that you won't feel bad for unethical conduct

You should be ashamed of yourself

Imagine if you made a game and people told you that hey, it was alright but they aren't going to buy it because they'd rather pirate it -- but hey, continue to make games and you'll get better right? And then they can pirate those games too!

[Core Xii]

Are you even listening to yourself you stupid bastard

[...]

Imagine if you made a game and people told you that hey, it was alright but they aren't going to buy it because they'd rather pirate it -- but hey, continue to make games and you'll get better right? And then they can pirate those games too!

More importantly, are you listening to me? Dragon Age 2 was not alright. I don't want BioWare to continue making games. I am less likely to even pirate their future games, let alone buy, after what they did.

I don't have to imagine that, it's what I intend to do. It's like you just dropped in to call me stupid without reading the thread at all.

[paste]

Who's to say I would have? I think BioWare made absolutely terrible mistakes I most certainly would not have made myself. Should we pay babies for demonstrating how not to walk? Or talk? Obviously not.

That's a straw man.  You said you gained knowledge from playing the games.  If you "most certainly would not have made" those mistakes, then you didn't gain knowledge from them.  I'm obviously talking about the mistakes you *did* gain knowledge from.  Also, these mistakes are the type of thing that usually get brought up in a decent review of the game, so you could save money and time by reading free reviews.

It's becoming more apparent that you're not really going to accept the flaws in your argument, just justify your point.  Your work-already-done argument did not hold, and you never contested my analogy that basically said if you buy things, there is always some uncertainty with what you're going to get. 

[PaleFox]

I don't have to imagine that, it's what I intend to do. It's like you just dropped in to call me stupid without reading the thread at all.

You intend to make games that are then pirated? 


Here, why don't we use another analogy. Supposing you went to a restaurant to try it out. Even if you don't like the food in the end, you don't just walk out without paying, do you? Because, you know, they still made your dinner and you got something out of it. I have heard -- hell, I've made the "just trying it out" argument about games myself, but I've never beaten an entire 40 hour game just to "try it out." Even so, the excuse was always just a rationalization of unethical behavior on my part, which is why I don't pirate games anymore that I can still buy from their maker. If I can't afford it, well, too bad, eh? 

[Zecks]

Here, why don't we use another analogy.

that's it. from this point onward im calling everyone comparing food to games an ass.