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[Schilcote]

... am I the only one who doesn't see why "YogDiscovery" is so evil?

So someone paid them money to advertise for them. Yes, that's how advertising works. Who's harmed by this exactly?

The Kickstarter thing being cancelled is shitty, but they are saying they're going to do something with some other game as an apology.

I think this is a classic Hanlon's Razor situation. These people are stupid, not evil.

p.s. drugs are bad k

[Nillo]

So someone paid them money to advertise for them. Yes, that's how advertising works. Who's harmed by this exactly?

If I understand this right (and I'm not saying I am 100% informed on the issue) the problem people have with it is that the Yogs dudes are not saying it is an advertisement. They're going to put up the videos and say something in the description similar to "Thanks to <game company> for making this video possible!" Which I guess you could interpret as an acknowledgement that the video is an ad, but not everyone will see it that way. A lot of people would look at a statement like that without realizing how much of an impact directly receiving money from a developer has on the content of the video.

I don't think people would have a problem with it if the video immediately told the viewer that "the following video is a paid advertisement".

[jamesprimate]

i think whats creepy isnt that its paid, is that its paid a percentage of the games revenue.

[Schoq]

They're going to put up the videos and say something in the description similar to "Thanks to <game company> for making this video possible!" Which I guess you could interpret as an acknowledgement that the video is an ad, but not everyone will see it that way.

which apart from being immoral is also illegal, gg

[gimymblert]

The money figure I provided was just meant as comparison, not actual cost, also with 70k per month there is money left after 7 month and I actually use 8k per people and there is still even more money left, so even with the extra cost there is plenty money for even a "high cap".

[HimTyers]

Personally i Feel really bad for the guy, I mean his wife ended up filing for divorce and he put quite a bit of his own money into it, $25,000 in fact, but the main cause of its downfall is the yogscast. I say this because they entrusted their property to a small inexperienced team; I also think they grossly underestimated the cost of making a game.

Though I suppose some games can be made for a lot less than what they received from the kickstarter campaign.


All in all I just think that they were to ambitious in what they were asking the team to create.

[Sik]

They're going to put up the videos and say something in the description similar to "Thanks to <game company> for making this video possible!" Which I guess you could interpret as an acknowledgement that the video is an ad, but not everyone will see it that way.

which apart from being immoral is also illegal, gg

Yep.

I'm wondering if this also applies to the press as well. According to the FCC, one is required to disclose even when one gets a free copy of the game, something which is pretty much a requirement for a preview (and also the way reviews are usually done). I have yet to see any game journalist making a proper formal disclaimer about having obtained the game for free.

[Mauricio Gomes]

They're going to put up the videos and say something in the description similar to "Thanks to <game company> for making this video possible!" Which I guess you could interpret as an acknowledgement that the video is an ad, but not everyone will see it that way.

which apart from being immoral is also illegal, gg

Yep.

I'm wondering if this also applies to the press as well. According to the FCC, one is required to disclose even when one gets a free copy of the game, something which is pretty much a requirement for a preview (and also the way reviews are usually done). I have yet to see any game journalist making a proper formal disclaimer about having obtained the game for free.

I make mobile games for kids... And when kids are involved, regulators are known to fall down with the force of 10.000 banhammers.

So, I ALWAYS see reviewers of our games to write that they got the game for free and that they are not affiliated with us, yadda yadda.

[Sik]

Yeah, I guess, but with more mainstream games that doesn't happen. I imagine that could be troublesome if somebody were to sue, because it wouldn't be just the author of the article that would get in trouble, but also the developer for willingly giving away the game to that person in the first place. I guess the only reason that didn't happen so far is that the readers of said articles pretty much expect that to be the norm (like, in what other way it could be possibly done?).

[Giovanni]

No you don't understand, Minecraft is popular because of them and their youtubing.

they were mouthbreathing 30 year olds at the right time and place

I want to be a mouthbreathing 30 year old some day... then I'll have ALL the Youtube money.

So someone paid them money to advertise for them. Yes, that's how advertising works. Who's harmed by this exactly?

The Kickstarter thing being cancelled is shitty, but they are saying they're going to do something with some other game as an apology.

I think this is a classic Hanlon's Razor situation. These people are stupid, not evil.

Isn't stupid with tons of money the equivalent of evil?

I'm fully expecting this from Yogscast - http://youtu.be/9u0EL_u4nvw?t=13s
I'd be disappointed if they didn't.

Anywho, the Kickstarter had a pretty terrible setup. A poster at $60? A 19x27 runs $5 a pop, not to mention $6 shipping in the US and $15 outside. That's asking to end up with no money. Add a shirt for a $30 higher tier? Sure, I'd love you guys to spend an extra $20 shipping it internationally because you forgot to add international shipping costs onto the tier. If the $250k for licensing fees thing is correct, then that means they were left with $275k after Kickstarter, Amazon, and Yogscast fees. Don't forget you still have to pay taxes on that (~$525k after KS+Amazon). California is infamous for its absurd taxes too, so don't forget them. Sounds like the developers had a really bad time. Can't blame the guy for ditching.

Yogscast picked the wrong people and gave them a crap deal simultaneously. While the blame lies on both sides, I doubt Yogscast is going to be hurt by this in the least.

[pottering]

I don't think people would have a problem with it if the video immediately told the viewer that "the following video is a paid advertisement".

I think the entire video has to be distinguishable from the normal non-ad content, just a short warning in the beginning of a video that otherwise looks exactly like other "let's play" videos from that LPer does not cut it, still leads to confusion from the viewer.

[Sik]

Actually just a disclosure is enough.

"Generally speaking, if an advertiser or a marketer is paying someone to write favorable reviews, the reviewer needs to disclose that," says Mary Engle, associate director for Advertising Practices at the FTC, "and that disclosure should be clear and conspicuous, and should be upfront and easy to see where the viewer won't miss it."

The fact descriptions are easy to miss (and sometimes impossible to see) means they can't be used for the disclosure, and annotations don't work either since they aren't visible in the mobile version of YouTube from what I've heard, but having it in the video when it starts probably would count. I suppose you could be really pedantic and say that if somebody gets linked to a specific time in the video, that a viewer would miss that disclosure - the only 100% safe method there would be to have a message that is visible during all of the video.

As usual, in case of doubt, contact a lawyer.

[Schoq]

unironically looking forward to let's plays opening with "The following is a paid advertisement by x game publisher"

[Praying Mantis]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2b4bzm/yogventures_final_kickstarter_update/

What a fucking mess. I can only imagine what a hugely negative effect this whole thing will have on future Kickstarter projects. Want a way to foster distrust amongst the community? This is how you do it.

[Laddo_D]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventures

Jesus Christ, this is like every Kickstarter red flag rolled up into a single page.

[jamesprimate]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2b4bzm/yogventures_final_kickstarter_update/

What a fucking mess. I can only imagine what a hugely negative effect this whole thing will have on future Kickstarter projects. Want a way to foster distrust amongst the community? This is how you do it.

and apparently the yogscast guys are disputing the claim too, so this is going to turn into a public shitstorm (as it should I suppose!)

anyway, I feel bad for devs that have Kickstarters running or are planning ones soon, as this certainly won't help matters.

[ANtY]

anyway, I feel bad for devs that have Kickstarters running or are planning ones soon, as this certainly won't help matters.

I hope nothing else happens till mine goes live :<

[Jondog]

Paying lump sums and losing someone within 2 weeks is an amazing fuck up.

[Irock]

Paying lump sums and losing someone within 2 weeks is an amazing fuck up.

I've spoken to someone who did the same thing: had a successful Kickstarter, gave all the money to someone all at once and the guy stopped producing. Tens of thousands of dollars down the drain. Seems stupidly risky and I don't know how anyone could be so reckless.