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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

and that's like "necrophily can be fun when you can bring yourself to overcome your tastes, and if you enjoy sex"

Wait, isn't that true? Regardless of what you think about necrophilia now, isn't it true that anyone could potentially learn to enjoy it? People's minds are pretty malleable, I imagine through methods like hypnotism or brainwashing anyone could be made to enjoy anything.

[Alex May]

It misses the point anyway, as the point of the game isn't to kill a "well specified minority" - by definition the game deliberately MIS-specifies the group in question as "the Muslim race" when they are a religious group - and they're hardly a minority anyway, especially in the context given: fighting them in their own country.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Also, this game reminds me of another indie game from back in the day, called something like 'Scientology PWND'. The author of that game (a game in which was somewhat like this game except that you killed Scientologists instead) actually was investigated by the police because people reported him for hate crimes. There was a forum thread on it that Tim W linked me to once.

Similarly, I heard that the guy that made Super Columbine Massacre RPG got a lot of death threats and such.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think people should be careful with controversial things like these, and make sure you know what you're doing. Is a joke game worth risking your life over (even if it's a very small risk)? Taking a chance to say something important is fine of course, but this seems like a senseless risk because it isn't really saying anything that Steven Colbert doesn't say every day and is saying it in a way potentially open to misinterpretation.

[ChevyRay]

Definitely agree with you there. And that in itself is one message that this game has already gotten across to us. Interesting how that works, eh?

I'd never take the risk when I make things, there's rainbows and butterflies and green grassy field. I like to avoid such... jarring projections myself.


EDIT: @Eclipse: I didn't think it was that stupid, really. It wasn't even meant to be insulting heh. Why DO you think that people can't make original games without using this type of stuff to attract players? Is it just pure ignorance or "stupidity", or are we missing something completely here?

[Daniel Benmergui]

and that's like "necrophily can be fun when you can bring yourself to overcome your tastes, and if you enjoy sex"

Wait, isn't that true? Regardless of what you think about necrophilia now, isn't it true that anyone could potentially learn to enjoy it? People's minds are pretty malleable, I imagine through methods like hypnotism or brainwashing anyone could be made to enjoy anything.

You forgot to mention school and tradition.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Yeah, those work too, it's just that it doesn't apply to necrophilia. But there are tons of things that people wouldn't like so much if not for school and tradition. There was a quote that goes something like 'most people would never fall in love if they didn't hear about love from television'.

[increpare]

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think people should be careful with controversial things like these, and make sure you know what you're doing. Is a joke game worth risking your life over (even if it's a very small risk)? Taking a chance to say something important is fine of course, but this seems like a senseless risk because it isn't really saying anything that Steven Colbert doesn't say every day and is saying it in a way potentially open to misinterpretation.

Hmm.  Not a big fan of self-censorship in these matters as a concept.  What you're saying is sort of common-sensical and pragmatic, though, of course, but it doesn't sit at all well with me.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Nobody is a "big fan" of self-censorship. It's just that the existential necessities of one's society often force it. For instance, it's self-censorship not to go naked in public, but we'd end up in jail if we tried it.

[increpare]

Nobody is a "big fan" of self-censorship. It's just that the existential necessities of one's society often force it. For instance, it's self-censorship not to go naked in public, but we'd end up in jail if we tried it.

Erm, that's different I think.  Self-censorship, to me anyway, is where you DON'T do something even though you don't think it's wrong and it's not illegal (usually done for reasons of fear/anxiety).

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Well, being a far-right winger I don't think public nudity even should be illegal, so I guess that still counts for me.

[increpare]

Well, being a far-right winger I don't think public nudity even should be illegal, so I guess that still counts for me.

Oops.  I left out a 'DON'T' above.   

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Okay, makes sense. But I still don't agree, because I disagree with the idea that something should be done just because one feels like it.

Often you want to do something at first, then think about it, then realize something about it and then don't want to do it anymore. I don't think that's a form of self-censorship.

Otherwise, the only people without self-censorship would be the people who do and say the first thing that pops into their mind all the time.

[increpare]

Okay, makes sense. But I still don't agree, because I disagree with the idea that something should be done just because one feels like it.

Often you want to do something at first, then think about it, then realize something about it and then don't want to do it anymore. I don't think that's a form of self-censorship.

Otherwise, the only people without self-censorship would be the people who do and say the first thing that pops into their mind all the time.

Okay, I see your point I think.

[William Broom]

Also, this game reminds me of another indie game from back in the day, called something like 'Scientology PWND'. The author of that game (a game in which was somewhat like this game except that you killed Scientologists instead) actually was investigated by the police because people reported him for hate crimes. There was a forum thread on it that Tim W linked me to once.

Similarly, I heard that the guy that made Super Columbine Massacre RPG got a lot of death threats and such.

Perhaps the true 'statement' of the game relates to these incidents. Make a game against Scientology, and the police shut you down. Make a game against Islam, and they won't lift a finger. In fact, this is a game about Scientology and censorship more than it is about Islam. And the game shouldn't actually be played because the gameplay is irrelevant. The true meaning of the game appears simply in the fact that it has been created, and the author has not (yet) been censored.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Give it time. The Scientology thing didn't happen until around a year later.

[mewse]

At the end of the day, if you have to explain that you're doing satire, then you have failed at doing satire.

Satire is hard to get right, especially with the current mad state of the world.  In this case, the failed satire just makes the game look like hate speech, even though that apparently isn't what was intended.


If the author wishes to continue with satire, then I would recommend practising with some less explosive topics until he really gets his eye in.

[Zaphos]

At the end of the day, if you have to explain that you're doing satire, then you have failed at doing satire.

He didn't have to explain it to everyone though, and there will always be some who don't get any satire.  So it's not as binary as you're putting it.

Give it time. The Scientology thing didn't happen until around a year later.

Also, that was in Canada, and the legal response to this sort of thing changes a lot depending on the country.  Free speech laws are stronger in the USA than in Canada, for example.

[Sigvatr]

I'm not placing a lot of emphasis on satire and political commentary. I just wanted to make a funny and entertaining game.

All of these allusions to some kind of literary higher commentary are all in your imagination. I'm apolitical.

[increpare]

I'm apolitical.

That's very highly unlikely.  Even without going the route of counting disengagement as a stance, do you support the idea of democracy?  Do you support the concept of private property?  Any thoughts about human rights?  Justice?  These are all in the domain of political thought.

[moi]

I'm not placing a lot of emphasis on satire and political commentary. I just wanted to make a funny and entertaining game.

I have a hard time finding this game funny and entertaining when real people are actually dying by the dozen every day in Iraq and Afghanistan.