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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignThe Black Cloud of Jade City - Game Play Help
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Author Topic: The Black Cloud of Jade City - Game Play Help  (Read 2438 times)
jwk5
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« on: November 11, 2010, 11:54:04 PM »

I've had a lot of story ideas and game ideas that I thought were cool at first but later I found didn't really "click" with me as much as I'd hoped (and thus were dropped and abandoned) but I think I've actually managed to create one that I really like, and can really visualize well. The problem is I am having a hell of a time really figuring out how I'd like it to play. I'll give you a quick overview of the story and maybe someone might have an idea of what type of game play would really set it off. It goes something like this...

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THE STORY
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Tales have spread all over the world of a mysterious black cloud that brings ruin and sickness wherever it goes. Often times large chunks of what appear to be badly rusted metal are scattered along the black clouds' wake along with highly toxic substances and other such refuse. At night the cloud seems to give off a dim eerie green glow, leading most people believe this cloud is some kind of evil curse.

The truth of the matter is that long ago an airborne metropolis called the "Jade City" was built, its name given from the fact it was heavily lit with green lights. The city stayed aloft through a combination of solar and steam powered machinery comprised of many air jets, hot air balloons, and rotary blades. The city would fly above special docking towers located in several major cities on the ground to restock supplies and receive proper maintenance.

However, during a devastating war that spread across the land many of the dock-able cities were laid to ruin and the Jade City was effectively cut off from the world below. To make matters worse the political influence of the war below had spilled over into the Jade City and a period of total anarchy was unleashed. Many were able to flee the city via escape vessels but the rest were left trapped.

Over the centuries people managed to survive in the Jade City but most of the specialists who maintained the Jade City were gone, taking with them the knowledge of Jade City's operation and infrastructure. This led to the Jade City to crumble and decay and become polluted. Soon it was spitting enormous amounts of smoke into the air and this caused many of the solar and steam powered machinery to malfunction. Eventually large chunks of the city began to fall off and the city itself was completely covered in black smoke, essentially becoming a black cloud in the sky.

With the city's gradual decay resources and living space were becoming ever more scarce the population splintered into gangs warring with one another for territory and supplies.

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THE PROTAGONISTS
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There are two protagonists in the story that the player would switch between:

Leise Zerstörung - A citizen of Jade City who was born mute and wound up crippled after a gang attack that also claimed the lives of his mother and father. He is a scrawny unkempt young man who walks with a limp. He has dark hair and almost always keeps his face partially covered with a scarf. After the incident that claimed the lives of his parents he had fled to the old radio tower that eventually became his home. It is here that he would sometimes intercept signals from the world below, radio broadcasts of various sorts that would occasionally speak of a deadly "black cloud" causing sickness and death wherever it went. It wouldn't be long before Leise figured out what this "black cloud" truly was. It was then that his tragic destiny unveiled in his mind.
 
Wolke Entweichen - Another citizen of Jade City, Wolke is a strong-spirited young man who dreams of the wonders that must be found in the world below. He is quite athletic and has served as a scout for the gang he was raised into. He is able to navigate the rusting scaffolding and warped catwalks of the Jade City with great nimbleness and he is an exceptional climber. During an exploration of some the hard to reach and abandoned places in Jade City Wolke finds a set blueprints detailing the city's infrastructure. From this he discovers a secret bay of escape vessels beneath the hidden beneath the old City Hall building. It has been said that the anarchy of centuries ago was started in City Hall and that most inside did not survive, so Wolke knows there is a good chance that the escape vessels never saw use and may still work. However, City Hall and its surrounding streets have been claimed by one of the most powerful gangs in all Jade City. For Wolke, though, there is no turning back. He will escape Jade City at any cost...

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WHERE I AM STUCK...
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So that is it in a nutshell. How I imagine it is that the player will switch between the two characters regularly which in turn gradually reveals two sides to a single ending. At first I thought overhead RPG, then I thought platformer, something Castlevania-esque. I don't want to make the game a loot-a-thon or a grind-fest, I don't even want levels or a ton of stats. I want the game to feel almost survival-horror (with much less emphasis on the horror). Another World/Out of this World kind of comes to mind.

I know what I want but at the same time I am torn, and I don't know what I want. What I do know is that I really want to push this forward and see it through, and I've already worked up a ton of concepts (which I will post once I have started to really nail down the overall look I want). I have decided it will be something I will take my time with and work on at a comfortable pace rather than try to brute force my way through it like I have in the past (with no success). Anyways, suggestions on what sounds like the best kind of game play for a story set up of this nature would be very welcome (questions about the story are ok too).

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EDIT: THE SETTING
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I forgot to mention that the setting and relative technology level is around WW2 era, but with some fantastical elements. It's not set in the "real world" either, but one of my creation. I really fell in love with the

and the way it was lit so I want Jade City to have that kind of vibe to it, with more emphasis on green and aqua ambiance contrasted with other colorful neons. The protagonist Wolke is pretty much a free runner, which will be quite popular in Jade City. Many of the gangs wage their wars on broken down scaffolding and catwalks or across large cables so climbing and maneuverability are crucial in Jade City. The environment of the city will be broken up with most of the emphasis on vertical construction.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 12:23:00 AM by jwk5 » Logged
tsameti
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2010, 08:04:01 AM »

I guess you could juggle between platformer limited (your crippled dude) and platformer freeform (monkeyboy).

Or you could go isometric with a zelda style but plus a jump! If you've ever played the game Chrystalis, you know what I'm talking about.



I mean, there are a billion things you could do. But my advice is, unless the story idea comes with about 6-12 gameplay ideas, you might be better off writing it instead of making a game of it. Try to check out Project Volt. They're not doing exactly what you're doing, but they've got a similar dystopian city feel to the project.
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2010, 08:27:00 AM »

The story as you present it, is a bit weak too.

One character have backstory and seems a be-er, but have no motivation, basically event PUSH it where he is.

The other is a Do-er with no backstory but a motivation (he is PULL towards "escape the city") his decision drive events. He also physically defined (do-er function).

You may exploit this passive/active contrast. One character is push by event and we see the world through is emotion. While the other is more gamey, more empty vessel, and let the player interpret and choose how he would operate.

The passive gameplay would have the player led linearly into the games and serves to pass information about the world the player can exploit with the other character to navigate through more open ended choice (solving the "gang occupation" puzzle toward the escape pod). The passive character could also witness action of the active character (or his choice) and give more insight about their consequence in the world.

The ending would be something along the line of the passive character hearing (in the radio tower) impact of the active character when he arrive in the world below. It may also leave an open ending with the passive character finally getting a motivation which may be is main problem in the story (lack of faith, not having perspective, lack of motivation, etc...)
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2010, 01:22:43 PM »

Well maybe I shouldn't even chime in... I'm definitely one of those who comes down against building a game concept around a story first and foremost. I don't think games are a great storytelling medium, and I think the more you're trying to tell a story, the less you're making a good game.

On the other hand, it seems that what you're really enamored with here is a setting... and I do think that depicting a world, and allowing players to explore that world, is something that games do incredibly well. Games really ARE worlds, and playing a game is exploring a world - both exploring its physical space, and its possibility space.

If it were me, I would try to think of a way to make a low-tech version of something like "Far Cry 2" - which did a great job of immersing you in the evocative setting of Africa and letting you explore it, with a "trail" of quests directing your movement through it in a general way.

I would ask yourself this: what is different about life on this floating city as opposed to a traditional city on the ground? Aside from it being in anarchy (which could true in any city), what is distinctive about living in this floating city? You might have some unique gameplay opportunities arise from this.

But if you don't think of any terribly interesting/original gameplay ideas, I would definitely consider using an RPG-maker engine. Why spend your time on the technology when the depiction of an interesting setting and story is what you really want?

Finally I should point out that this setting bears quite a few similarities to that of "Columbia" in Bioshock: Infinite. Look into it if you haven't. "Takes place in a WW2 steampunk era floating city in anarchy" is not going to look like a unique selling point for a game...
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jwk5
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2010, 03:01:44 PM »

Quote
I mean, there are a billion things you could do. But my advice is, unless the story idea comes with about 6-12 gameplay ideas, you might be better off writing it instead of making a game of it. Try to check out Project Volt. They're not doing exactly what you're doing, but they've got a similar dystopian city feel to the project.
Quote
Well maybe I shouldn't even chime in... I'm definitely one of those who comes down against building a game concept around a story first and foremost. I don't think games are a great storytelling medium, and I think the more you're trying to tell a story, the less you're making a good game.
It's not really that I am creating a story without creating game play first, it is that in the process of refining the story I've become torn on exactly what kind of game play I want to go with. I was hoping for suggestions here that might help me solidify the game play or add features to what I have thought up thus far.

What I initially wanted first was a very vertical oriented platformer RPG (a la Castlevania: Symphony of the Night) but with a dash of Mirror's Edge thrown in (i.e. acrobatic movement emphasized over direct combat). For Leise (the crippled character), he would serve as almost a narrative to the game setting. After segments of playing as Wolke, you'd briefly play as Leise and learn a bit more about the city and the world below (and the Leise segments would also serve as "breathers" from the platforming segments). The gang Wolke is from would also play a role in the story and help contrast Wolke from Leise (Wolke is generally not alone and Leise is always alone).

I do definitely want to focus on the setting and characters as the art and storytelling of the game are a huge motivating factor for me actually doing it, but at the same time I want to make sure the game play suits it (and I will be constantly refining and editing the story to suit the game play in turn). I guess what I am asking here (and which I probably didn't word well since I was pretty tired when I first posted) is what kind of game do you feel best suits the setting and two characters. In the end I will go with what I feel is best, of course, but the point of posting here is that it doesn't hurt to get suggestions, ideas, and inspiration from outside sources.

Oh, and do I appreciate the responses and suggestions thus far, they have given me some things to think about.

Quote
I would ask yourself this: what is different about life on this floating city as opposed to a traditional city on the ground? Aside from it being in anarchy (which could true in any city), what is distinctive about living in this floating city? You might have some unique gameplay opportunities arise from this.
I have thought about it. The vision in my head (with the initial game play I was thinking of) is that you'd have a lot of setups like the train falling off the cliff scene in Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (where the environment is suddenly breaking away and you're scrambling to make your way up it before it crumbles and falls taking you with it).

I also envision a lot of Mirror's Edge type obstacles where you are trying to make quick progression through them via the use of acrobatics (Prince of Persia: Sands of Time also comes to mind for the climbing and obstacle puzzles). In the Leise segments it'd feel a bit more like an adventure game where you are examining the environment and unraveling clues (though these segments would be limited to one puzzle or idea each, I want them to be fairly brief).

Quote
The story as you present it, is a bit weak too.

One character have backstory and seems a be-er, but have no motivation, basically event PUSH it where he is.

The other is a Do-er with no backstory but a motivation (he is PULL towards "escape the city") his decision drive events. He also physically defined (do-er function).
I think a large part of the problem is I don't want to give away too much information here, at least not more than what is needed to explain the setting because I do actually want to make this a game so I'd rather not have all the major plot points exposed before anyone even gets the chance to play it. I probably should have made that clear initially (like I said, I was tired).

Leise has a motivation (though I've changed "him" to a "her" now) it is just one that will unravel with the plot and is kind of crucial to it. Wolke has a backstory but it is less critical to understanding his position in the game (his backstory is revealed a little more progressively through his actions and interactions with other characters). You can kind of think of it as Leise is carrying the weight of the past and Wolke is his definition in the present. Both are eventually motivated towards two different goals that lead to the same ending, which is hard to explain without laying all the cards on the table.

Quote
The ending would be something along the line of the passive character hearing (in the radio tower) impact of the active character when he arrive in the world below. It may also leave an open ending with the passive character finally getting a motivation which may be is main problem in the story (lack of faith, not having perspective, lack of motivation, etc...)
I actually have a pretty solid ending planned (hence the lack of details given here), the beginning and middle do need some refining but the ending I am happy with.

Quote
But if you don't think of any terribly interesting/original gameplay ideas, I would definitely consider using an RPG-maker engine. Why spend your time on the technology when the depiction of an interesting setting and story is what you really want?
I thought about it because I do love a classic RPG, and initially thought I could just demonstrate Wolke's acrobatics through cut scenes but I don't think it'd have the same kind of contrast that a more action-oriented engine would present (i.e. Leise survives through hiding and confinement and Wolke survives through freedom and movement).

Quote
Or you could go isometric with a zelda style but plus a jump! If you've ever played the game Chrystalis, you know what I'm talking about.
That is not such a bad idea. I was almost thing River City Ransom would be a decent template though I don't know that it'd give off the same feeling of vertical progression as a platformer would (well, at least not as smoothly). Still, it is definitely something to consider.

Quote
If it were me, I would try to think of a way to make a low-tech version of something like "Far Cry 2" - which did a great job of immersing you in the evocative setting of Africa and letting you explore it, with a "trail" of quests directing your movement through it in a general way.
Though in Far Cry 2, Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, Fallout 3, etc. it is real easy to lose track of the main story while running side quests. I kind of want to keep the focus squarely on the main story (and also, I don't want to get too crazy with the Cheese Wiz and turn this into a project that is overwhelmingly large).

Quote
Finally I should point out that this setting bears quite a few similarities to that of "Columbia" in Bioshock: Infinite. Look into it if you haven't. "Takes place in a WW2 steampunk era floating city in anarchy" is not going to look like a unique selling point for a game...
Yeah, I've seen the trailers for it but there is a big difference in the settings (at least as far as the "feel" goes). Jade City is built more like a massive oil rig (along these lines) crossed with an airship (along these lines) and has cables, girders, and beams going every which way. It is also very dark (it's outer framework is covered in black smoke after all) and primary lit by neons. It will have a much more industrial feel than what is seen in Bioshock: Infinite and its inhabitants aren't a bunch of supernatural lunatics they're just people trying to survive. It's not actually set in the WW2 era (I was meaning that is about what the level of technology is) it is set in a fantasy setting and is meant to feel more post-apocalyptic than steampunk (i.e. very dirty and ruined).



Anyways, I appreciate all the suggestions so far (like I said, they've given me things to think about). I apologize for the lack of clarification and information in my first post, I was intending to just throw the setting out there and then check the suggestions in the morning because I was pretty tired and it was a lot of text. Hopefully I can narrow down the vision and put some work into drafting the design document soon. Until then, all suggestions are welcome. Thanks. Smiley


EDIT: I should also note that I am a "setting and characters first" kind of gamer. I will play through some pretty crappy fighting games if I really like the characters, backgrounds, etc. for example. I am all about the game worlds and their inhabitants. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy good game play (and definitely prefer it) but the game play is only half of what makes the experience for me. So perhaps the notion of me focusing on story and characters first may seem somewhat "wrong" the fact is good game play is good game play, regardless if it came before or after the story. If you can create a good story to suit game play you can create good game play to suit a story.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 03:08:21 PM by jwk5 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2010, 04:24:15 PM »

So far i don't see the problem, stealth and action, I would see something more like platformer to make an emphasis on verticality which seems one big driver in aesthetics, and maybe you should stick to your influence (out of this world) and make something similar. Maybe it's a problem of methodology with fractioning the story into gameplay step?
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jwk5
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2010, 04:41:38 PM »

So far i don't see the problem, stealth and action, I would see something more like platformer to make an emphasis on verticality which seems one big driver in aesthetics, and maybe you should stick to your influence (out of this world) and make something similar. Maybe it's a problem of methodology with fractioning the story into gameplay step?
Maybe, or just plain old indecision. I've been pouring through old games and new games looking for the game play inspiration and I think what I want to do is go side-scrolling platformer but somehow deliver the story not just through the characters but also through the environment, much in the way Metroid: Prime did. Even though it was really sparse you discovered a lot about the story just by examining the world around you. I really don't want coins, level ups, health bars, points, or any of that (no HUD whatsoever if I can get away with it). I think I know the general direction I want to go, just something feels like it is missing from the puzzle. It's got me stumped.

EDIT: These are some ideas i had for some of Wolke's movements (wasn't too concerned with the accuracy of animation or anatomy, just the basic ideas).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 04:56:43 PM by jwk5 » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 09:49:45 AM »

Metroid, out of this world, incidently flash back and heart of darkness ... they are all atmospheric platformer whern they are not cinematic platformer... Looking at the exemple you give and the no power ups aesthetics, I still don't see where the problem is Wink

Maybe you should just start and see where it goes.
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