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[Noyb]

Made it to the third level, didn't realize I had to discover the diagonal jumping glitch, accidentally walked through the entrance door, didn't feel like replaying the second level. Looks like there's no savegame either?

I love the art design and the levels are cleverly designed, but it feels like you're falling prey to the classic designer-knowing-his-game-so-well-he-overestimates-the-difficulty syndrome. An introductory level which repeatedly kills you if you haven't watched a youtube video isn't the best way to teach the player advanced game mechanics.

For those having trouble with the ij jump: Directly face the wall. Walk up right next to the wall. Sidestep left so your cursor is slightly to the left of the wall's edge. If you're positioned right, jumping up without moving will automatically push you to the left. So in that position, you want to jump forward, and move right in midair onto the platform above. Reverse the directions if you want to jump around the right side of the block.

[shrimp]

This looks f king mentally amazing! The 3D retro-but-more-stylish look and the embedded text is beautiful.
...However, I haven't yet plucked up courage to play it and attempt these crazy jumps...

[mokesmoe]

The way I do ij jumps is I looks straight down, jump just as I reach the edge, then do a quick 180 with my mouse. I can do multiple ij jumps in a row without stopping using this method.

I didn't find this very difficult at all. However I did start playing on the old version, (which takes five minutes to do the one level one it) so I would suggest playing that. (and you should totally put that level back in the game somehow. Maybe it could be a branching path from the tutorial room or something)

[aliceffekt]

wow. you guys are absolutely amazing It's late now and I can't write a long message. I just wanna let you know that I will psuh the development of drypoint further !!!

I ll make a decent post in the morning

Much love !

[mokesmoe]

I think the difficulty curve is too high. You have every jump in the first level. You should have every level introduce one new jump, (slide jump, ij jump, around a pillar, diagonal jump, possibly more) and have that jump right in the beginning of that level to practice on.

Also, here are is a hard jump that I've only done once: (side view)

Code:

 
 Of   s: start
sOO   f: finish
OOO   

Around a pillar and up a level.

[Bremze]

I think the difficulty curve is too high. You have every jump in the first level. You should have every level introduce one new jump, (slide jump, ij jump, around a pillar, diagonal jump, possibly more) and have that jump right in the beginning of that level to practice on.

If the player can't do an ij jump in the tutorial level, you are just postponing when he hits a wall. It's probably discouraging if you can't even beat a tutorial though.

I agree, that it would be nice though the introductory levels shouldn't be too long, but the problem is that previous gaming experience doesn't help you when trying to do the ij jump(at least it didn't for me). I think there has to be a demonstration of some sort.

[Gold Cray]

I went into the game with no prior knowledge other than "THIS GAME IS HARD," and it didn't take me too long to figure out the jumps required for the first level. It makes it pretty clear that you have to do things you wouldn't normally do, and that sets the tone pretty well. I haven't finished the second level yet, but there are parts that would have been much harder to figure out if I didn't already know to do things that don't make sense.

[hackedhead]

I figured out the tutorial alright, but man, the alternating jumps[1] in the first level are hard. (Since you have less room because of the extra walls. I couldn't make it past in several attempts, and the lack of progress checkpoints discouraged me from continuing to try because I got bored repeating the first 30 seconds of the level....
Love the concept and the art style though, the mechanics are just beyond me. =P
The 'single pixel' HUD forward dot is really important I think, it really helps you orient yourself, nice touch.
 

My two cents..

Code:

[1]

P player
>< Path
B Block

 B<B
 >BB
 B<B
P>BB
 B B

[Ishi]

Just had a thought about this so I thought I'd put it out there. If the ij jump was taught on a structure like this..



it would have stopped me finally doing the jump but then falling off the other side of the ledge into instadeath so many times. Just while I got the hang of the actual jump part. I'm not expecting you to go changing your levels or anything, just a suggestion in case you do.

[Bremze]

hackedhead, its possible to cut that to just one ij jump.

When standing one the grayish-brown blocks, face the alternating greenish blocks and jump+hold right(left if you face the left blocks) to get a bit higher. Then jump diagonally into the blocks and you should be just one ij jump away from being on top of them.

If you want it even easier, after doing that, look at the other set of blocks. You can jump straight over to a empty spot in the opposite blocks if you time it right.

That sounds confusing, I'm not very good at giving directions

[hackedhead]

hackedhead, its possible to cut that to just one ij jump.

When standing one the grayish-brown blocks, face the alternating greenish blocks and jump+hold right(left if you face the left blocks) to get a bit higher. Then jump diagonally into the blocks and you should be just one ij jump away from being on top of them.

If you want it even easier, after doing that, look at the other set of blocks. You can jump straight over to a empty spot in the opposite blocks if you time it right.

That sounds confusing, I'm not very good at giving directions

Yeah, I had a suspicion that there was a way to simplify the path somewhat, which is all well and dandy, but I'll stand by my comments, and that I'm just not cut out for this game. Which is fine. 

[aliceffekt]

mokesmoe - I think the difficulty curve is too high. You have every jump in the first level
> I am currently working on different paths. Accessible from different point from the tutorial, so if you can't get the IJ at first, you can go climb the new tower thingy I am working on :D

Bremze - I think there has to be a demonstration of some sort.
> I am not much of a coder, but I promise I will try something :D

Sparky - Arrange the world in such a way that there's a large hub world which is open rather than linear, with different areas available to people of different skill levels.
> In progress !

mokesmoe -And I realized that that level has ground below, so that makes 0 deaths.
> Can you imagine the 3rd level without ground ? At first it had none, it was almost impossible. haha

Ishi - Oh yeah and I found the way the music restarts when you die a bit jarring.
> I know ! This annoys me too, will be fixed soon.

Noyb - if you haven't watched a youtube video isn't the best way to teach the player advanced game mechanics.
> Yea sorry , I am looking in a clever way of showing the mechanics without them being too explicit.



@mark: Nothing makes me more happy than this, seeing you post this screenshot like IF**ING DID IT !

@Ishi: I really like this idea, it's actually harder than a normal IJ, since it forces the player to practice the jumps from he 2 sides, personally I always attack a IJ from the right, this mechanic is awesome I will use it thanks ^^

Thanks so much everyone for the nice feedback ! It's so great to see people sharing techniques 0_0.. I couldn't sleep last night I was just thinking of level ideas. I don't really know much about game design / LD so I am all learning on the spot, I realize now mistakes I have done and which I will fix in the next release, with the new area. An in-between area before the tutorial and the second level, depending which door you decide to take :D

[Kaworu Nagisa]

I haven't played it yet but the very fist screenshots look soooo beautiful! 

[deathtotheweird]

I'm really glad you are continuing work on this. It's a really fantastic game, aside from the difficulty.

I think you should try to keep the original paths and make new paths. Make the new ones take longer so they wouldn't be best for a skill-run/speed-run. I liked the maze structure of the original, where sometimes you had to go down to go up and you had think a bit before proceeding-rather than the seemingly linear but really difficult jumps you have now.

Also on the first level, remove the amount of jumps you have to do in the beginning. They are more annoying than anything, especially when I keep dying and repeating those several pointless jumps. I guess you need a couple but not the eight jumps you have now. I think three would be sufficient for a beginner to get a feel for the jumping distance/speed/etc.

[aliceffekt]

Working on it ^__^
If you are curious, I've gotten a lot of comment about the too quick music. But here is what I use for music in the dev version .mp3




Images from my last trip in Metatron's Tower

[deathtotheweird]

The new mp3 you just shared is too crazy. Way too fast and distracting. I played it in the background of an older version and raged like nobodies business. I loved the track, however. So maybe if you were to put a main menu screen you should use the track for that instead.

I liked the music in the game already, I was hoping for a more ambient style music but the music you created was pretty good and wasn't as distracting as the older 'original' music and the track you just uploaded-so  on that.

[aliceffekt]

Haha I won t be using this track in the game. it's only for me, so I keep a constant feeling for the game. I will stick to the drone/ambient/idm tracks I made, I am making a new one for the tower lvl





Working on it ^__^
If you are curious, I've gotten a lot of comment about the too quick music. But here is what I use for music in the dev version .mp3




Images from my last trip in Metatron's Tower

[deathtotheweird]

ah, ok. I was under the impression you was asking if we would like to see the track in the game,  .

Forgot to mention how much I love the tpdrypoint/027.jpg image. A little too stick-figureish but it's quite wonderful.

[Bremze]

I think you should try to keep the original paths and make new paths. Make the new ones take longer so they wouldn't be best for a skill-run/speed-run. I liked the maze structure of the original, where sometimes you had to go down to go up and you had think a bit before proceeding-rather than the seemingly linear but really difficult jumps you have now.

This, I like cutting corners and the decorative blocks in the first level.

Also, I hope you won't remove all the water from levels because the beginning of the first level looks really good with it and the brown-ish grass texture looks a bit boring if it covers the whole bottom of the level.

[aliceffekt]

Quick update with the new level inbetween the training and the first level. 

Gives a chance to learn the jumps 

DOWNLOAD RELEASE : PC | MAC 9mb.