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[Fuzz]

[Tom Sennett]

Oh no, someone ripped off Space Invaders.

I thought April Fools was last week?

[Nulldorf]

this thread is not 

[TheBlackMask]

Firstly, I would like to point out that I own a copy of Titan Attacks, and just played the flash game, which is similar in almost every aspect, even color palette.

Cas, this thread is pure proof that TIG is becoming a hub more for people who PLAY indie games, and not people who MAKE indie games.  Anyone that has made a game, especially a commercial one, would be pissed if someone ripped off their game to this extent.  I have no problem with copying game mechanics, or even artistic style, but this is an example of blatantly copying a game.  I suspect that a large number of people on this forum simply won't understand what you are trying to say, so I don't know how far you are going to get trying to convince them.

[Problem Machine]

I'd just like to say that I completely understand WHY he's upset, I just think he's handled it in the worst conceivable way.

[Fuzz]

Firstly, I would like to point out that I own a copy of Titan Attacks, and just played the flash game, which is similar in almost every aspect, even color palette.

Cas, this thread is pure proof that TIG is becoming a hub more for people who PLAY indie games, and not people who MAKE indie games.  Anyone that has made a game, especially a commercial one, would be pissed if someone ripped off their game to this extent.  I have no problem with copying game mechanics, or even artistic style, but this is an example of blatantly copying a game.  I suspect that a large number of people on this forum simply won't understand what you are trying to say, so I don't know how far you are going to get trying to convince them.

I haven't played either, so I was just basing what I said on what Cas has told us about the similarities. They may be very similar, but however similar they were, Cas hasn't been handling this very well at all.

[Evil-Ville]

Sure it might feel bad when someone takes your idea and uses it but that's life. Mature people don't throw temper tantrums on internet forums like this.

[TheBlackMask]

I haven't played either, so I was just basing what I said on what Cas has told us about the similarities. They may be very similar, but however similar they were, Cas hasn't been handling this very well at all.

Yeah, Cas blew up a bit, but only after a bunch of people were dicks to him, probably without even playing the game.  His first post seems pretty reasonable to me.  The only unreasonable responses I see from Cas are responses to people who probably didn't even take the time to play the game.

Really, I think anyone, before commenting in this thread, should play both games, or at least look at screenshots of both.  The level of similarity is just really inexcusable.  To make comments about the issue without even playing the games in question really adds nothing to this discussion.

[mirosurabu]

I have played the games after I made the comment and I can confirm there are similarities indeed. But design details these two games share are not unique to any of these two. I still think it may as well be just unintentional or even coincidental similarity. This is something authors tend to dismiss.

[Moth]

It does look pretty similar. The flash game even has the half destroyed buildings in the BG. Differences are no smart bombs and "Armour" instead of "Shield". The terminology for currency is even the same.

I'm not going anywhere with this I just wanted to compare and decided to share my results in case anyone was too lazy to go look.

[Fuzz]

I can't really see anything similar between the two games that hasn't been done in any other Space Invaders/Galaga clone. Granted, Titan Attacks is by far the better game, but it isn't being ripped off by the flash game.

[Zaphos]

Cas, this thread is pure proof that TIG is becoming a hub more for people who PLAY indie games, and not people who MAKE indie games.

There are people in the thread who make games who are not upset, here.  So, no, it proves nothing.  But if you wanted to prove that you could just do it directly.

Tangentially, I hope TIG is a place for people to get interested in the process of making games and to become people who make games, and so blurs that distinction between players and makers.

His first post seems pretty reasonable to me.

His first post was pretty confusing to me, I think because I haven't played his games; I didn't even know which game he thought was ripped off, and he only posted the other side of the argument.  It's not 'till much later in the thread that he lays it out for the uninformed observer (ie me) and then it's still not very visceral or clear because a lot of these features sound generic.  So I think that's part of why you see so little empathy.

It's also an area where there is heavy cloning already, and both seem generic, so you really do need to pay close attention to the details to see if there's anything 'bad' here.  If cas hadn't made a clone in the first place I think you'd see more empathy by default.


At any rate -- Cas, what do you hope to get out of this, at this point?  It doesn't seem like the authors care to acknowledge your point, and ... it's not really possible to force them to do so.  On the bright side, I don't see this becoming the next puzzloop, just because I don't see a free generic-ish space invaders clone getting the mindshare or traction of a popcap game which pulled out of obscurity an idea that still felt fresh.

[Tom Sennett]

?

[Pigbuster]

So let me get this straight: You guys invented the shop mechanic? Both our games are derivative of Space Invaders, Galaga and the like, and both games have a shop mechanic, being the primary element that separates the two from that ancient game. The shop mechanic was present in many Japanese arcade games from the 80s. Grow up, Cas.

This is an example of how not to calm a conflict. "Grow up"? Ugh. If you say something like this as a reply, it is practically guaranteed to piss the other person (Cas) off, and you'll have a brand new enemy. WHEE.

The proper response to such an accusation is something along the lines of "That's crazy, our games are really similar. Please know, however, that I speak with all honesty when I say we did not rip off your game. It's all just a rather big coincidence" (for the love of god write something better than that). You could follow that by going into detail of how you came up with the mechanics yourself, or something. You just have to try and make it clear that you're not lying or half-assing it, and that you stay civil. It'll probably take a bit of time to write, yes, but it's better than starting a flame war or something of the sorttt.

...if, of course, you did rip off the other game, then it does you absolutely no good to lie about it. Put an "inspired by" link on the title page and leave it at that. Again, a hell of a lot easier to do than the alternative.

Note that a civil reply will only be effective if the other person is civil as well. If the original message was something along the lines of "OMG YOU RIPPED OFF MY GAM U FUKERRRRRRRRR :MAD:", then there's pretty much no point in replying with anything.


Mmmhhhhhvvvvmh.

[Glyph]

Mm. This thread might just lend itself to another bag of popcorn yet.

[moi]

?

[Fuzz]

?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

There's justification for being upset, but considering how ubiquitous plagiarism is in schools, did you really expect it would not be ubiquitous among game developers? And yes, it's a bit upsetting when it happens, I've had games of mine cloned before, but it happens, letting it affect you emotionally just wastes time. Game developers, especially Flash developers, aren't exactly the most mature people in the world, and it's just sinking to their level to argue with them after the point where they revert to saying things like "grow up".

[princec]

I'm not actually really upset... I just wanted to start a thread here to see what other people thought about it. (Got 6 pages out of it! Wahey!)

The responses from forumites here have boiled down to:

1. People who have played both games and
  1a. realise there's no way on Titan that both games could have evolved so similiarly by coincidence
  1b. somehow convince themselves that because each individual feature is present in maybe another game that maybe they can't remember that
    1ai. Titan Attacks is itself a total rip off of loads of games and doesn't have a leg to stand on
    1aii. The two games did in fact evolve entirely spontaneously rather against the phonemonal odds to be virtually identical

2. People who haven't played either of the games

3. People who just want to tell me I'm a dick for daring to speak - nice one guys - and then like to assert that I'm immature because I can start a reasoned discussion on the subject in a forum

4. People who seem to think I'm pissed off our game has been cloned - I'm not, I'm flattered - I'm pissed off about the lack of acknowledgement followed by the insults and barefaced lies, but you wouldn't know that coz you just skimmed the entire thread (tl;dr)

5. Continual comparisons with Space Invaders whilst not reading any of the rest of the thread. I mean what's the point of being in a forum if you don't read the threads before you reply to them eh? Might as well just be a bot. Maybe you are

Cas

[Don Andy]

Oh damn, I totally missed all this.

Absolutely hilarious, though, keep em coming, princec! Be strong! Don't let those forum hobbits discourage you and keep the rage coming! YOU WILL WIN IN THE END I BELIEVE IN YOU!

Edit:

Oh damn, forgot something.