RayJack
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« on: April 12, 2011, 10:15:03 PM » |
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I get very annoyed when games use a "run button" to allow the player to move faster than the default speed. It frustrates me because i often end up spending the entire game with this button held down, making it pointless. There are some platformers with tricky jumps that need to be lined up slowly and at these parts it is best to let go of the run button, but because the vast majority of the game is spent holding it down and you only let go of it for specific instances I feel like it would be better to have a "walk button" that you only press if you need it for a tricky jump.
What are some games and/or game ideas that make good use of a run button? By good use, I mean the player wants to be moving at the default slower speed most of the time and only wants to run a small amount of the time.
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MrTMC
Level 0
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 10:17:52 PM » |
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Perhaps the player cannot perform other actions while running, like attacking or dodging. Or maybe a fatigue meter that drains when you run too long.
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adam_smasher
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 10:26:03 PM » |
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I know it's counter-intuitive, but I often find, e.g. RPGs more engaging when you have to manually hold down the run button. It's almost certainly a very primal thing; something to do with the tactile feel of holding the button down or exerting a similar force with both of your hands.
Stealth games often require you to walk or crawl slowly much of the time. Warren Spector's games, specifically Thief and Deus Ex, did this really well. Ratchets up the tension enormously.
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Core Xii
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 10:41:51 PM » |
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Yes, generally speaking holding down a button to do something you want to be doing by default anyway is bad interface design. I'm... not sure if such a simple observation warrants a lengthy discussion; There's not much to say about it other than that it's bad.
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RayJack
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 10:46:21 PM » |
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Perhaps the player cannot perform other actions while running, like attacking or dodging. Or maybe a fatigue meter that drains when you run too long.
I like the idea of giving the player a choice between running and certain basic techniques. But I HATE fatigue meters. They are definitely more realistic but at what cost?! When I play a game with a fatigue meter (GTA San Andreas for example) I feel like I am being punished for having fun and running around. It makes me so sad. I know it's counter-intuitive, but I often find, e.g. RPGs more engaging when you have to manually hold down the run button. It's almost certainly a very primal thing; something to do with the tactile feel of holding the button down or exerting a similar force with both of your hands.
Stealth games often require you to walk or crawl slowly much of the time. Warren Spector's games, specifically Thief and Deus Ex, did this really well. Ratchets up the tension enormously.
Oh yeah, stealth games. I don't usually play them so I didn't think of them automatically. Well, topic over I guess, the correct answer has been given.
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SundownKid
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 10:59:00 PM » |
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I often find a walk button useless when it's included in a game. Recent examples include Radiant Historia and, from what I can remember, Source engine games. The only time I can think of that it would be useful is if you can dash with a fatigue meter, but the dash fatigue in Mass Effect 2 outside of battle pissed me off.
Besides stealth games, I think games with precise platforming that necessitate you to modulate your speed can qualify. For example, Super Mario Galaxy.
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RayJack
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 01:17:56 AM » |
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Besides stealth games, I think games with precise platforming that necessitate you to modulate your speed can qualify. For example, Super Mario Galaxy.
I haven't played Super Mario Galaxy so I'm not sure if this is the case for that game but I think your example only works if the the jumps require speed modulation more than 50% of the time. I know that whenever I play a 2D Mario game, I hold down the run button for almost the entire game and only let go every once in a while, and even then only for a second. Well actually that is not completely true because in old Mario games the run button was the same as the fireball button so whenever I want to shoot a fireball I have to let go of the run button in order to press it again, but you know what I mean. I would have preferred to have Mario's default speed be "run" and have a separate button for walking.
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« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 01:45:27 PM by RayJack »
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Derakon
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2011, 07:22:41 AM » |
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Just as a random observation here: Super Metroid has what is known as the "noob bridge", a bridge made out of crumbling blocks. You can run across them just fine, but if you walk then you fall through. Why is it the "noob bridge"? Because it's there to teach newbies that there's a run button. You'd be amazed at how many players get roadblocked by that thing (and, apparently, didn't look at the controller config and/or try out all the buttons).
Super Metroid does also have a few useful glitches that are only accessible by modulating your use of the run button, but they're pretty obscure and aren't really what you'd normally consider to be a feature unless you're a romhack creator.
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man of doom
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2011, 08:20:34 AM » |
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I feel that running is often preferable to be the default setting, or makes walking obsolete. A better way of dealing with this is to make both running and walking have more effects than simply movement speed. For example in many stealth games (for one example Alpha Protocol) running is very noisy and will greatly increase your chance of being caught, whereas walking or sneaking will allow you to move undetected. In Mass Effect sprinting allows you to move very fast but also allows you to use melee strikes (apparently, I played a Scout so never tried this one). In Assassins Creed running is seen as a little suspicious but is good for getting around, whilst walking will allow you to blend in with a crowd easier and avoid being spotted.
In my opinion the key issue if you're going to allow both is to make it so both have their own uses, otherwise you're implementing features that effectively do nothing, or worse, inconvenience the player through their obsolescence.
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« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 02:43:20 PM by man of doom »
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s0
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2011, 08:39:41 AM » |
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Super Mario Galaxy doesn't have a run button.
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Kegluneq
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2011, 11:26:15 AM » |
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Running in Spelunky is a good way to get killed by that off-screen arrow trap that you don't see until it's too late.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2011, 11:44:57 AM » |
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sonic
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JoGribbs
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2011, 01:29:45 PM » |
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It depends whether modulating your speed is important. I think Hitman, for instance, could use a run button, but I'm constantly confounded why Fable or Arkham Asylum have them (especially since Arkham already has a crouch button for sneaking around).
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RayJack
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2011, 01:47:00 PM » |
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sonic
exactly There is absolutely no reason at all for Sonic to have a run button. Run should be the default speed.
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Sir Raptor
Level 6
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2011, 03:37:10 PM » |
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I believe Pokemon HG/SS had an option where you could toggle between always running and walking. Don't know why it didn't come back in Black and White, though.
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s0
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2011, 04:07:25 PM » |
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In Assassins Creed running is seen as a little suspicious but is good for getting around, whilst walking will allow you to blend in with a crowd easier and avoid being spotted.
I really liked Assassin's Creed's control scheme. I think the idea of having a button to toggle the mapping of the other buttons between "non-suspicious" and "suspicious" actions is a pretty great idea something that more stealth games should do.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 06:37:16 PM » |
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Super contextual (attitude context) button?
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iffi
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2011, 06:45:05 PM » |
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Some games are better off with runnning as the default speed and having a key to walk more slowly, like in Quake 3. Personally I would have liked it if Super Meat Boy were like that, as holding down the run button almost permanently was the most tiring part of the game.
FPS games with a "sprint" key usually work well with such a key since you usually can't fire while sprinting, forcing the player to decide when is a good time to sprint.
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baconman
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2011, 12:56:09 AM » |
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Vulf
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2011, 04:08:15 PM » |
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A run/walk button seems to fit most when the player is required to move quickly or over long distances as well as move quietly or carefully (without resorting to crawling/crouchwalking), especially when required to do both in quick succession. Otherwise, it gets annoying and seems unnecessary. Super Meat Boy works well with a 'speed' button because most of the game requires quick changes in speed and momentum both on the ground and in the air to avoid instant death. Lots of bullet hell games have a 'slow' button to help make concise, sensitive movements through tiny gaps in bullet patterns but allowing for quick movement across the screen to focus on new targets when the coast is clear. Games where movement is controlled by an analog stick generally use tilt intensity as a buttonless form of speed control, such as Super Mario 64. Games where changing movement speed isn't important generally don't benefit from a button to do so, as most players generally end up either using it all the time or very rarely. Several examples of this have already been mentioned here.
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