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[Rostiger]

I'm sorry to cook up this issue again, but the more it sinks in, the more it bugs me: why can't there be Quote in Indie Brawl?
When I first read the news, I was like, yeah ok, not too bad, we got enough other characters to fill up the roster.

But let's be honest: even if you don't like Cave Story as much as I do or think it's just overhyped, you've got to admit that it was one of the major games that sort of kick-started a big part of the independent game development movement.
As someone here said, not having Quote in IB is like not having Mario in SSB.
Everybody who knows just a bit about indie games and plays IB will wonder where Quote is.

And yeah, maybe Nicalis sent a very polite mail declining the use of Quote, but so far there has been no real reasoning why they actually cannot give permission. I mean, damn, this is just a fangame - it's not like anybody would really profit except them, because they would get a lot of promotion via the IB museum, and the players because they get to play Quote. Personally, I cannot come up with a reason for the denial.

Please prove me wrong - I would not like to see people the way I picture them to be profiting from an innocent and true hearted game like Cave Story.

[Edit]
Thanks to Soulliard for re-releasing my post.
And to make this post a little more constructive, I wanted to ask everyone if you think a petition for Quote would be a good idea?
I could set one up on http://www.petitiononline.com/ or something the likes if enough people support it.
[/Edit]

[godsavant]

While the exclusion of Quote did greatly turn me off, I don't think we should be beating a dead horse. It's not just us - Pixel sent out requests for every fangame to be stopped; I do believe the denial was unjustified, but considering it is Pixel's IP, he has the choice to do whatever he wants with it. That said, Nicalis is on par with Tim Langdell to me, atm.

Again, dredging my suggestion from the Creator Permissions thread:

What I'm thinking is, we should include the Quote sprites in the IB download files, even if he's not in the game - just like many fighting games like Street Fighter have done with unfinished stages and characters, for the curious technophiles to find. That way, people who wonder why Cave Story is absent will realize that we went the distance, and that the exclusion wasn't our on our part.

Plus, it just feels unfair not to exhibit all of Kovski's sweet animations.

What I will say is, this is somewhat of a step back for Cave Story as a beacon for independent gaming. CS was one of the reasons I got into game-making, and the fact that Pixel now identifies with Nintendo saddens me. 

Also, we all know how effective online petitions are.

[Rostiger]

While the exclusion of Quote did greatly turn me off, I don't think we should be beating a dead horse. It's not just us - Pixel sent out requests for every fangame to be stopped; I do believe the denial was unjustified, but considering it is Pixel's IP, he has the choice to do whatever he wants with it.

Yeah, I know, sorry for bringing it up again - if there was more discussion on this issue, I must have missed it. It's just that there is this itching in the back of my head from all the unanswered questions and it just doesn't want to let me go.

So Pixel searched the net for every fangame to contact the makers personally and tell them to stop development? Not that I wouldn't trust your word, but it seems kind of hard to believe. Where did you get this from?

Sure, it's his IP and he can do whatever he wants with it, but what bugs me most is that there seems to be no real reasoning for the denial. Has Pixel or Nicalis ever made a statement on why exactly they don't want Cave Story material to be used in fangames?

Also, we all know how effective online petitions are.

A reactionary attitude won't get us anywhere either. I've already had some positive experiences with online petitions, so I figure they can't be completely useless, but speak for yourself.

I just wanted to get these thoughts off my chest, but if everyone is already sick of talking about it, we can burry that horse again... 

That said, Nicalis is on par with Tim Langdell to me, atm.

...

[godsavant]

While the exclusion of Quote did greatly turn me off, I don't think we should be beating a dead horse. It's not just us - Pixel sent out requests for every fangame to be stopped; I do believe the denial was unjustified, but considering it is Pixel's IP, he has the choice to do whatever he wants with it.

Yeah, I know, sorry for bringing it up again - if there was more discussion on this issue, I must have missed it. It's just that there is this itching in the back of my head from all the unanswered questions and it just doesn't want to let me go.

So Pixel searched the net for every fangame to contact the makers personally and tell them to stop development? Not that I wouldn't trust your word, but it seems kind of hard to believe. Where did you get this from?

Sure, it's his IP and he can do whatever he wants with it, but what bugs me most is that there seems to be no real reasoning for the denial. Has Pixel or Nicalis ever made a statement on why exactly they don't want Cave Story material to be used in fangames?

I heard from several people who were working on homebrew ports of the game and spin-off not using Sue's workshop that they had been asked to stop working on their respective projects a few weeks before the Wii port was confirmed, which led to much speculation.

[Soulliard]

I can confirm godsavant's observations. I know that development of at least one homebrew port was asked to cease.

Has Pixel or Nicalis ever made a statement on why exactly they don't want Cave Story material to be used in fangames?

Nothing specific, at least not that I know of.

[Piranha]

 

I don't get why he won't let Quote be in Indie Brawl. It's not a Cave Story fangame.

[Tazi]

Quote's IB incarnation look different a bit then his original. Which makes me think, would it be possible to turn him (his already made sprites) into some kind of a "Cave Story tribute character", using a new name for him? Would that hurt anyone? Just asking.

 

[kyn]

There's no gray area here, we're not allowed to use it, and that's final unless they say otherwise. Which is sad really, he was the best looking character, spritewise. 

[Mentalpatient109]

There's no gray area here, we're not allowed to use it, and that's final unless they say otherwise. Which is sad really, he was the best looking character, spritewise. 

Nonsense.

Let's add a goatee to the existing sprites and call him Asterisk: Warrior from the exterior.

[JLJac]

Pixel doesn't like fangames, from what I've heard and seen. That bugs me, since it's a sign of evil not letting devoted and non-creative people that adore his work fill their time with creating slightly worse versions of his stuff, and I don't want pixel to be evil. But, I can also see why he does it, because he wants his piece to be clean and alone, not cluttered by all the crap the internet can produce in a few years.

Some people that wanted to create a fangame sent a mail to pixel, it went something like this:

Fan: Pixel-San, we love your work so very much! It is the best of all games! We are thinking about creating a fangame called cave story 2, do we have your blessing?
Pixel: I don't allow that.

Harsh.

Yet, he does like fanart. When people send him fanart he answers politly but in a slightly soulless tone, which may be because of his language difficulties. Example:

Fan: Your game moved me to tears, it is so beautiful! You are the best artist on the internet! I love you! Here's a pic I made for you:
40000*40000 pixels piece of fanart that looks like it was started on at the release date of CS and then worked on every 2 out of 3 hours until now
Pixel-San: Thank you very much!

He accepts it, at least. The difference is, I assume, that a fangame could possibly be mistaken for something that's really connected to pixel's work(especially if it's called CS 2), where a piece of fanart is obvious as fanart.

 And, what I think is odd, is: What we are doing is more "fanart" than "fangame". It could by no means be mistaken for something included in some "cave story series", it is obviously just a tribute, exactly like any picture.

Therefor I think that the rejection we got was not the work of pixel, but of nintendo and the guys working at the port. And their reason? Because they can. We are now in the wicked lands of commersialism, where many people think "their drawback is per definition my benefit."

Eh.. That's what I got out of it. I still think that we should keep trying a little more, but maybe the people that are the tryers are already to exhausted with this. In that case, drop it.

[Tazi]

There's no gray area here, we're not allowed to use it, and that's final unless they say otherwise. Which is sad really, he was the best looking character, spritewise. 

Nonsense.

Let's add a goatee to the existing sprites and call him Asterisk: Warrior from the exterior.

Actually, a top hat and a monocle would work.


With a moustache, obviously.

Eh.. That's what I got out of it. I still think that we should keep trying a little more, but maybe the people that are the tryers are already to exhausted with this. In that case, drop it.

I agree on that, the worst part of the whole thing is that Quote's sprites are already done and they look incredibly nice. Would asking permission via Nicalis be a good idea, or that one is a even more hopeless try?

[battlerager]

Would asking permission via Nicalis be a good idea, or that one is a even more hopeless try?

They were the ones that ultimately sent us the refusal.

[Dailyman]

I think we should wait until the game is released on Wiiware before asking again.

[Triplefox]

Once a game is licensed for console release there are several situations that would cause a denial without recourse:

-Author is not interested...
-Author has sold rights to company and company is not interested...
-Company and author have overlapping rights and there is disagreement from one party, or it's too difficult to reconcile, which can happen if it gets split three ways or more between author, developer, publisher...

These situations can generally be overcome if you throw enough money at them...and on that note I think we should not delude ourselves into thinking this is just a little fangame. The vision for this game is so strongly supported, and so amenable to dumping in more and more features and content, that it is highly probable that it will become a long term open-source project, maintained for 10 or 20 years or more - and not by the same people. Nethack did that, and the only "characters" it has are ASCII. Within that scope it is conceivable that someday funds might be raised to buy up the IP of characters we really, really want. If there were a big Indie Brawl player base, for example, they'd support those kinds of initiatives.

But I'm going into speculation. For now, laying the groundwork for a good game is more important than any of that.

[William Broom]

Strange phrases leapt out at me like car headlights on a midnight freeway... buying the rights to Quote... developing game for 20 years...

[hyperduck]

Considering Cave Story is coming out on WiiWare (sorry i skimmed through the comments but just eventually went right to reply) is why Quote is un-usable. Could be the possible answer, also.. the music in Cave Story is being changed for the WiiWare release? Uncool much?

[Strong]

Considering Cave Story is coming out on WiiWare (sorry i skimmed through the comments but just eventually went right to reply) is why Quote is un-usable. Could be the possible answer, also.. the music in Cave Story is being changed for the WiiWare release? Uncool much?

The original music will be selectable, too. As will the original graphics.

[JLJac]

I don't like the wiiware release one bit. Have never liked nintendo, and I have always liked cave story because it showed nintendo how to do what nintendo is always trying to do, but do it good. And now this unholy union And on top of that all this with Quote in IB

**** them

[William Broom]

I don't think the permission thing was because of Nintendo. We got permission for World of Goo even though it's on Wiiware. Most likely Pixel just doesn't want people making fangames of his work, which I think is understandable.

[falsion]

Does Pixel mind The Underside? No, I'm not using that old lolcavestoryripoff joke. But it's still very much a fangame and much of the game pays tribute to Cave Story (and Earthbound, among other things), despite it using original content and characters.