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[jwaap]

Some things;

The theme is nasty, but yeah. You're going for the insult everything then it's ok thing anyway, so whatever.

The game is fun! Awesome graphics, fun gameplay, nice bosses. (Got till debug round.)

Some things:

Stuff gets hard to see, perhaps make dead enemies a bit darker or something, this way it's impossible to see all of them when walking, perhaps give it a higher framerate or something?

Also: More weapons, flamer please. Perhaps a sniper that can shoot trough rows of enemies?

kbye

[J.W. Hendricks]

I guess Tim might not have been aware of that part of the deal when Indiegames changed. People have been giving him flak about it, I hear.

More flak than when I was on there?

I dunno, but I saw some flames against him on some other games he's posted.

Okay, because Indygamer went to hell when I screwed up.

This game is actually very fun. I'm a big fan of arena shooters.

[Alex May]

You're going for the insult everything then it's ok thing anyway, so whatever.

Who is he insulting though? Islamists and US neocon rat bastards. Seems like they deserve it

[Ciardhubh]

You're going for the insult everything then it's ok thing anyway, so whatever.

Who is he insulting though? Islamists and US neocon rat bastards. Seems like they deserve it

With the current name it would be Muslims, not Islamists. I'd be interested to see how people would react to Jew Massacre (for maximum shock value).

I don't think that neocons will get it, though. Whenever I read their publications, it is impossible to tell satire from original right-wing ramblings. They are even more crazy than the wildest satire can ever be.

How can you tell satire and right-wing radical views apart? Can you go on the street, chant "Death to all [ethnic group of you choice]!" and claim it to be a satire? Can you excuse anything with claims of satire? Can you cover a "if you repeat something often enough, it becomes true" approach with satire? No criticism, just asking out of curiosity.

If you skip the intro, it is very easy to miss any hint of satire altogether.

[Alex May]

I agree that it could be more blatant, but I hardly think it's subtle as it is. I don't think the far-right wingers are supposed to get it even if they would (which you rightly point out they probably wouldn't. they'd just enjoy killing the 'towel-heads').

People often use badly-thought-out race hate examples as the logical conclusion of satire. It's not really valid, as it would be bad satire. This is good satire because of loads of reasons: the parody of old games like Operation Wolf; the association with the satirical Cannon Fodder games; the introduction audio / visuals; the portrayal of all Muslims as violent and then not giving most of the enemies weapons; the arabic on the floor reading "ass sex" or whatever it says. There's tons more just from looking at screenshots, 4 or 5 of which are posted in the first post of this very thread.

Proper satire pokes fun. Going out in the street and yelling "kill all the muslims" is senseless. Making a game called "Jew Massacre" would only be good satire if it made the Nazi Germans and their beliefs look like idiots. That's not hard to do of course. But I am sure if you tried hard you could make a game called "Jew Massacre" and have it be really really offensive without putting the Nazis in a bad light at all.

I really think that if you can't see how this game shows the US (and also Islamists) in a bad light, you need your head examined and probably deserve to have a heart attack from reasonless righteous indignation caused by not understanding this game.

[Ciardhubh]

I really think that if you can't see how this game shows the US (and also Islamists) in a bad light, you need your head examined and probably deserve to have a heart attack from reasonless righteous indignation caused by not understanding this game.

Of course it shows the US in a bad light. The problem is the - at least perceived - acceptance of this bad light by its citizens. You have to consider that people, not living in the US, mostly see actions and effects of US foreign policy and the widespread patriotic support of this policy. Therefore this game depicts - to some extent - the view of the US many people already have; without the potentially satirical aspect. A gun-toting soldier killing Muslims could very well be today's "business man with a cigar, cowboy hat and a texan accent" stereotype of the 80s.

How about oil barrels that you can collect for bonus points and a secret camp where you can torture a few random prisoners, to make it more obvious for the more slow-witted ones like me.

[Alex May]

Hey yeah, I like the oil idea.

[Seth]

Maybe this is satire but it's a satire that's been done countless times already, and one that won't reach anyone who hasn't already heard the argument.  Similar to the way that a contemporary satire that portrayed Nazis in a bad light wouldn't be good satire because everyone already thinks Nazis are bad.

[Alec]

baaaallls deep

[Eclipse]

too much (wrongly) stereotyped for my tastes, that kind of things are not fun at all...
why people can't make original games without using this sort of stuff to attract players?

[increpare]

"Death to all [ethnic group of you choice]!"

PG competition is over now, alas

But I am sure if you tried hard you could make a game called "Jew Massacre" and have it be really really offensive without putting the Nazis in a bad light at all.

Simcity 2000 set in warsaw, with 'ghetto' zones and an objective to get rid of all jews/gypsies/fags (followed, needless to say, by Poles)?  It might make for a good game.  Might still cast Nazi-ism in a bad light, though 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Out of curiosity, what was the reaction like on Indiegames when it was posted?  Did Tim take it down?

He had no problems putting it up, but one of the indiegames.com corporate cock suckers came on to take it down.

Yeah, those guys are part of the reason I hardly post on that blog anymore (I'm one of the editors). I hate feeling as if things that I post are subject to board meeting approval 

Although the bigger part of it, of course, is that I'm lazy.

As for this game, I'm with haowan -- it's obviously anti-US, not anti-Muslim, and people who think it's anti-Muslim aren't very good at paying attention. But as for the game itself I find it too bloody for my tastes, I dislike gore in games, even when it's pixelated.

(And actually if it's anyone who should be offended by this game, it's Americans, because it continues the stupid stereotype of Americans as belligerent and intolerant.)

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I agree that it could be more blatant, but I hardly think it's subtle as it is. I don't think the far-right wingers are supposed to get it even if they would (which you rightly point out they probably wouldn't. they'd just enjoy killing the 'towel-heads').

Actually I disagree with that. I'm a far-right winger and I get it and don't enjoy killing the towel-heads.

[ChevyRay]

why people can't make original games without using this sort of stuff to attract players?

For the same infinite amount of reasons why people can't post on forum boards without asking questions like this

too much (wrongly) stereotyped for my tastes, that kind of things are not fun at all...

They can be fun when you can bring yourself to overcome your own tastes, evidently, because lots of people like it. And if you enjoy the gameplay.

Whether it's Muslims, zombies, or aliens, it doesn't make a difference to me when it comes to a video game. It's not real, and it doesn't change my opinion of any of the parties involved at all. So why would it bother me? You're slaughtering a singular group of something that (in the fictional context) just is just classified as "bad" and in need of killin'. Everything we do that we think of as "honorable" or "good" can easily just be viewed as bad or evil by another party, so I try to keep my point of view as multidimensional as possible.


Frankly, I personally think that if you're just neutral about something like this, you're better off than those who are uncomfortable with it or even "supportive" of the ideas involved. If it bothers you, would it bother you more/less if it was the other way around, and you had to slaughter white Americans?


Moaning isn't gonna stop games like this from being created, anyway. It just fuels the fire, if you ask me. The more controversial something is, the more popular it is, and ultimately the more support it gets; it's human nature.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

My current host will definitely take the site down once they receive enough complaints, which they have done to me before.

I suggest http://nearlyfreespeech.net

It's a host where you pay only for what you use (which makes it cheaper than most hosts because nobody actually uses the 1.5 TB per month or whatever most hosts give you), and is very supportive of free speech and won't take anything down due to complaints.

[Alex May]

I agree that it could be more blatant, but I hardly think it's subtle as it is. I don't think the far-right wingers are supposed to get it even if they would (which you rightly point out they probably wouldn't. they'd just enjoy killing the 'towel-heads').

Actually I disagree with that. I'm a far-right winger and I get it and don't enjoy killing the towel-heads.

I concede that, my post was pretty biased/uninformed/moronic.

[Farmergnome]

great game dude, shooting towelies is awesome.

Its kinda over the top offensive in the most awesome way, but yea, I get why some dont like it, sweet game anyway.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Oh, as for actual feedback on the gameplay:

- Levels could be about half as short without any loss of anything. Just, like, reduce the number that you have to kill each level by half and the game would be a lot more fun I think.

- Bush speech clips between levels would add a bit to the atmosphere, instead of bunching them up all at the start of the game.

[nice_try]

YOUUU ESSS EHHHH!!!
YOUUU ESSS EHHHH!!!

 

[Eclipse]

why people can't make original games without using this sort of stuff to attract players?

For the same infinite amount of reasons why people can't post on forum boards without asking questions like this

that's plain stupid...

too much (wrongly) stereotyped for my tastes, that kind of things are not fun at all...

They can be fun when you can bring yourself to overcome your own tastes, evidently, because lots of people like it. And if you enjoy the gameplay.

and that's like "necrophily can be fun when you can bring yourself to overcome your tastes, and if you enjoy sex"

if killing a well specified minorance isn't the main reason of the game to exist i can accept the point you're arguing. The gameplay can be of course fun or well done but you can't just say "close an eye on that and maybe you can enjoy it", because there are better games anyway, and with no stupid stereotypes like that
I simply consider the game to have bad taste and a fun but not so original gameplay