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[tametick]

Steam just gave me copy-pasted "Dear Sir/Madam, we thank you for your letter but regret to inform you..." type emails twice. I didn't try a third time.

Humble Bundle asked me to get into a bundle as a bonus game when I got tons of attention & press after making the game free for a day. After 2 months of leading me by the nose they said that the fact it was free in the past means they can't put it in a bundle since it will not seem valuble to their customers (regardless of the fact that that's how they found out about my game & that it was only free for one day).

Indie Royale put me in a ridiculously far away back-log (something like a June bundle on January) and then pushed me back to August (with no contract of course, just a promise). I decided to not gamble on their good faith after the Humble Bundle experience and agreed for GamersGate to put my game on a sale. After that I was labeled "already appeared in a bundle" and therefor persona non grata (unrelated anecdote - I believe own 5 copies of Super Meat Boy, all from bundles).

Let me end this post with a positive light tho - Cardinal Quest made almost $50k (enough to cover my costs) despite being rejected by all the gate keepers. I've decided to no longer grovel to any of them with future games, if they want them they can contact me.

[tametick]

Here is a short blog post I just wrote on the subject of relying on steam & HIB:

http://blog.tametick.com/2012/08/why-i-will-no-longer-buy-games-on-steam.html

[ANtY]

Indie Royale put me in a ridiculously far away back-log (something like a June bundle on January) and then pushed me back to August (with no contract of course, just a promise).

Anyway, heading off to read your blog post (why u so short)

[TeeGee]

This is a very good point. If you require Steam or a bundle to succeed, it means you are not truly independent anymore.

[ANtY]

This is a very good point. If you require Steam or a bundle to succeed, it means you are not truly independent anymore.

I wonder what exactly require means here, I bet in every case you'll end up selling more copies if you're on Steam, and also you can not achieve success (being able to make next game independently) even when being on Steam.
I someone's game sells badly and he's not on Steam and he didn't succeed, he is not truly independent anymore? 

[TeeGee]

I mean that if your business plan assumes you must get on Steam to be profitable, you are not independent -- you are at Steam's mercy. For example: we base all our plans and expectations on direct sales. Sure, getting on Steam would be nice, but we have to be able to make another game even if we won't. It's good to see Steam as extra money (even if that extra can heavily outweigh your normal income), but plan ahead as if it didn't exist. Of course, only if you really mind being indie or not.

[Bambino2012]

Having a business plan having the hope to land on Steam, I don't think it's a good idea no, unless you are already established and have almost 100% sure that Steam will let you in, which I believe it's much simpler once you have a developer account in there.
Other than that, I have no clue how you guys manage to market Indie games, most if not all websites simply ignore us.

[ANtY]

Other than that, I have no clue how you guys manage to market Indie games, most if not all websites simply ignore us.

connections 

[Bambino2012]

Other than that, I have no clue how you guys manage to market Indie games, most if not all websites simply ignore us.

connections 

I'm pretty sure that's very important, but not all successful indie developers have connections, look at the Rubicon guys, they hired a PR company. 
http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?30567-Great-BIG-War-Game-Out-now-on-iOS-and-Android

[Klaim]

I am not yet experienced enough to give advice on this, but my understanding is that, better than connections, having a game that have something very very special automatically generates buzz, so marketing is automatically performed. The hard part is to do something you like enough to put a lot of quality in, but yet find ways to put something very special in it.



Some says I'm idealist but I remark that big successes are all heavily surprising when you try them.

[chubigans]

Something I found interesting...just tried submitting a game to Steam for release at the end of August, and they said to wait for Greenlight and post it on there. So apparently they've stopped all indie submissions (perhaps since Greenlight was first announced), when I had assumed they'd stop after Greenlight was launched. Huh.

[Xienen]

I obviously don't know what you game is, chubigans, but my guess is that's the new standard "not a good fit" e-mail from Steam.  As in, "we don't want to say yes, so we'll just tell you to try your luck later, on Greenlight".  Just a possibility 

[TeeGee]

Yeah, I got the same email, so it's just their standard refusal template.

[jack_norton]

Nah you're all wrong, the right algorithm to get on Steam is:
RAND()

 
Really. I know indies who make SIX figures a year of direct sales and thousands of fans that were rejected, and very similar games accepted shortly after. I know people on Steam that make less than 20k/year (which is a misery on Steam). Etc etc. The best is not rely too much on getting there - make a good game and if you get on Steam OK, otherwise you can always sell direct (and people luckily still support indies direct!).

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Really. I know indies who make SIX figures a year of direct sales and thousands of fans that were rejected, and very similar games accepted shortly after. I know people on Steam that make less than 20k/year (which is a misery on Steam). Etc etc. The best is not rely too much on getting there - make a good game and if you get on Steam OK, otherwise you can always sell direct (and people luckily still support indies direct!).

that's kinda sad, yeah. i have the feeling sometimes that steam has no idea even what games sell and what don't, or even what makes a good game in genres outside of their usual fare of genres, and just judge things based on gut feeling or something

[nihilocrat]

Something I found interesting...just tried submitting a game to Steam for release at the end of August, and they said to wait for Greenlight and post it on there. So apparently they've stopped all indie submissions (perhaps since Greenlight was first announced), when I had assumed they'd stop after Greenlight was launched. Huh.

The Steam guys are a bit disorganized. I've heard stories from a AAA dev who was doing the integration process and it wasn't easy to communicate with them, in the sense of long waits for replies to emails and not very many details when details were needed. I think the point of Greenlight is that the submission process was formerly very manual and it's become a big error-prone mess from their end thanks to the sheer scale of submissions.

Steam and the others being gatekeepers is just depressing, if I were to sell a game it's clear I've missed the gold rush and it's just not going to be easy for anyone, barring some external technological revolution (like digital distribution was) that disrupts the market. Anyone getting started in commercial indie development should probably keep their day job.

I hope I am goading someone into calling bullshit on me, because I hope I'm not right.

[hanako]

It's not like "don't quit your day job" hasn't been a standard warning for a very long time in this and every other creative 'career'.

Most wanna-be writers, musicians, etc are never going to make it. Most indie game makers won't either. Art ain't easy.

Of course, then I feel guilty saying that, since I am a self-supporting indie and suggesting that others can't pull it off makes me feel like I'm puffing myself up too much. I know too many people who make WAY more money at this than I do, to ever feel like I'm a success.

[Klaim]

That's still quite impressive to me.

By the way, "the don't quit your job" advice is not always correct, some countries (like France) have some system that encourage company creation by quitting your job. It's not good fit for everyone, because it imply to build a company early, but it can solve some problems sometimes.

I heard lot of stories about Steam refusing a game several times then accepting, so I guess the source of their randomness is because they don't agree with each other inside. Not sure though, never tried and I didn't get these stories from close people.

Anyway, no indie game dev should have to rely on Steam, at least that's what I believe so far.