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[1982]

I would like to see suggestions and discussion about bad chiptune music. It seems like chiptune is praised all over in all various forms no matter what. But there has to be bad chiptune music as well. What is bad, why is it bad? To keep this interesting, lets not go into commercial mainstream music scene at all. Lets stay in so called indie and underground area.

For me personally, I feel that bad chip tune music usually features lack of depth in compositions.

[Ashkin]

https://8bc.org/music/Ashkin/Blue+Balloon/
I tried composing music once.
I am the textbook example of bad chiptunes. Void your bowels in fear and disgust.

[1982]

https://8bc.org/music/Ashkin/Blue+Balloon/
I tried composing music once.
I am the textbook example of bad chiptunes. Void your bowels in fear and disgust.

I thought that we would not post our own music here either, but if that is genuinely really bad maybe I'll accept your contribution 
(Just realized how this thread was good idea while I don't have possibility to listen anything right now) - But I'll listen that later.

[noah!]

Oh man, this thread could turn out to be pretty brutal. Talkin' about it, this forum is loaded with examples of semi-par chiptune, and it's gonna be super-easy to throw our fellow man under the bus. So I'm not sure if it's wise to limit the discussion to just indie music here.

To tell the truth, I've been thinking about this for quite a while. Initially I chalked it up to just pure subjectivity, and figured that indies go gaga over mediocre chiptune in the name way that the Newgrounds-ites drool over mediocre techno. But then I started experimenting with chiptune, and found that it is ridiculously difficult to make something good. Like, even though it's rather easy to make something passable, the difficulty curve from "passable" to "good" is nigh-clifflike.

Therefore, I'll give some examples of what the good chiptunes do to scale that wall:

1. Tone Awareness. Just like voices, waveforms also have a power range. To illustrate, listen to

and notice how each waveform is used in regards to pitch. In contrast, listen to

from a true Classics of Game. While it has some neat compositional ideas, the instrumentation is doing its gosh-darned best to shoot the song right in the foot.

2. Differentiation. Let's face it, there are only so many sounds you can pull out of a chip. So unless you have a

or are willing to buy your advantage, it's likely that your music will just sound just like all the other bad chiptunes. I think this is super egregious with SID music, which despite having one of the most flexible sound chips ever, has a music library which consists of everyone pretty much using the same freaking sounds and techniques. But I know you know a lot more about that scene than I do, so feel free to provide examples of good SID music (one good one I'm thinking about is "Disno" by Peet; sadly unavailable outside of the HVSC...and also some mortimer t stuff)

3. On Chiptune Elements. I mention this because I see way too many people trying to "enhance" their mixes with a few pulse waves in order to spruce up the action. I know. I'm guilty of it myself. Now while there's no problem with this innately, the real trouble comes during the mixing phase. You gotta believe, waveforms cut through the mix like microfilament, and trying to get a smooth blend between them and your other instruments is a headache beyond headaches. Honestly I'd just say that unless your name is Anamanaguchi or Ninomojo, you're better off just avoiding chipwaves in your normal music altogether.

OK, so in the end I ended up ranting about good chiptune instead of bad. But honestly, a lot of bad chipmusic suffers from most of the flaws that normally-bad music suffers from (poor mixing, no flow, etc.), so I figured I might as well focus on issues specific to chiptune...

[1982]

1. Tone Awareness. Just like voices, waveforms also have a power range. To illustrate, listen to

and notice how each waveform is used in regards to pitch. In contrast, listen to

from a true Classics of Game. While it has some neat compositional ideas, the instrumentation is doing its gosh-darned best to shoot the song right in the foot.

While both of those songs are good, I prefer Mega Man one. Not because it has better overall tones and mixing, like you said, but because its a better on composition side. There is sure lot of potential in Deadly Towers, but it falls too short. I think I am more fond into soundscape of DT anyway, because it gives more breathing room for compositions (where it lacks eventually). Yeah well, either one is not bad example by any means

2. Differentiation. Let's face it, there are only so many sounds you can pull out of a chip. So unless you have a

or are willing to buy your advantage, it's likely that your music will just sound just like all the other bad chiptunes. I think this is super egregious with SID music, which despite having one of the most flexible sound chips ever, has a music library which consists of everyone pretty much using the same freaking sounds and techniques. But I know you know a lot more about that scene than I do, so feel free to provide examples of good SID music (one good one I'm thinking about is "Disno" by Peet; sadly unavailable outside of the HVSC...and also some mortimer t stuff)

I some what disagree since I believe that good chip music doesn't require good sound tech. With most basic chip sounds you can make great pieces. It is about using the given soundwaves interestingly, and more importantly, laying down compositions that have something in them. Try Köleskab from Toben Hansen, it is quite "big" song to be chip tune in the end. Full of emotion which is very important in any music. Applies even more in chip-music because instrumental masturbation is taken out of equation. SID-music has always been about emotion for me. I feel that most chip music lacks it completely. Good songs are universal ideas, non-dependent on the platform. But at least in SID-scene lots of good songs emerged because lack of tech shifted lots of focus on compositions. It is like neo-classical. Classical music has always been made with same instruments and arrangements, making the songs more like ideas of perfection. Genlock Intro from Volker Meitz is also such. I am not listing BEST SID songs because it is impossible feat.

3. On Chiptune Elements. I mention this because I see way too many people trying to "enhance" their mixes with a few pulse waves in order to spruce up the action. I know. I'm guilty of it myself. Now while there's no problem with this innately, the real trouble comes during the mixing phase. You gotta believe, waveforms cut through the mix like microfilament, and trying to get a smooth blend between them and your other instruments is a headache beyond headaches. Honestly I'd just say that unless your name is Anamanaguchi or Ninomojo, you're better off just avoiding chipwaves in your normal music altogether.

I'm not really into this "enhancing" philosophy. It never sounds right, worst possible example must be Desert Planet. I must say that I didn't like Ninomojo or Anamanaguchi. It is like doing boob job for music. I however do like demoscene artists approach trying to push the boundaries of a chip, inside a chip.

OK, so in the end I ended up ranting about good chiptune instead of bad. But honestly, a lot of bad chipmusic suffers from most of the flaws that normally-bad music suffers from (poor mixing, no flow, etc.), so I figured I might as well focus on issues specific to chiptune...

I think, bad chip music suffers from the fact that compositions and arrangements are not interesting. It is because the fundamental lack of understanding truly good music, and from which elements its been made of. The chiptunish paste job doesn't make the actual songs worse or better.

[Belimoth]

via Mesh

All bad chiptune music is made by furries or secret furries.

[XRA]

*edit* just realized.. chiptune, I was lumping it in with tracked music in general :D

stuff like this lol, subjective

[noah!]

I some what disagree since I believe that good chip music doesn't require good sound tech. With most basic chip sounds you can make great pieces. It is about using the given soundwaves interestingly, and more importantly, laying down compositions that have something in them.

Er, so sometimes I phrase my points awkwardly, but I think that might be the first time I've left out my point entirely... But yeah, what you wrote is what I meant by differentiation; the ability to push out something unique using common sounds. Sometimes this means finding ways to push the chip to the limit, sometimes not.

I think this is where modern chiptune fails. Now we're 20 years past the days of the SID and 2A03, and since modern DAWs and trackers can render dozens of channels with no lag, people today are no longer constricted to these artificial limitations. So we get a bunch of people trying to brute-force their way to a full sound, which almost always leads to a stuffy and lopsided mix. But that's just personal opinion.

[1982]

I think this is where modern chiptune fails. Now we're 20 years past the days of the SID and 2A03, and since modern DAWs and trackers can render dozens of channels with no lag, people today are no longer constricted to these artificial limitations. So we get a bunch of people trying to brute-force their way to a full sound, which almost always leads to a stuffy and lopsided mix. But that's just personal opinion.

I fully agree on this. While this applies to chipmusic, it also applies to some "regular" music too. But I am not going there, it is completely another discussion  You pretty much explained the essence behind good chip music, that being constrictions and artificial limitations. You have to make most out of them. In long run it provides some awesome pieces when composers know and learn more about the tech they work with. It might take years. The very first C64 songs weren't so good. I believe the peak in SID-music where somewhere in late 80s, before sound sampling started to be major thing. While many sample based SID-songs sound awesome too, they pretty much start to go in another direction any many times lacks true quality compositions. It is like hiphop-scene of SID's.

I personally don't do chip music at all, but I try to constrict myself still in my own work. Usually limiting my collection / usage of VST's or effects, or limiting number of tracks playing simultaneously. But I derive most of my compositional inspiration from 80s SID-culture.

[keoni29]

Worst chiptune music ever!!!!!

[1982]

Worst chiptune music ever!!!!!

Could you explain in more detail why that is bad?

[Jay Tholen]

What I'm about to say is subjective, but I don't like most chip music I've heard associated with dance or any of it's subgenres. Usually I'll give it a break if there are sonic variations or tessellations involved, but an awful lot of it is gimmicky and contains nothing that interests me.

In my mind I break it into two categories... sound design and composition. If your track is a simple dance song, but you give the sonic elements no dynamic presence, it's going to suck. At the same time, if it's a complex masterpiece, but the sounds you select are badly mixed, uninspired (see: extracted from pre-recorded sample packs) and/or cliche-ridden, it's also going to suck.

[keoni29]

Worst chiptune music ever!!!!!

Could you explain in more detail why that is bad?

Watch the whole vid :/

[grayfox88]

Its using that song Friday by Rebecca Black, pretty much synonymous with awful.

[Battle Lava]

i am so beyond happy that nothing I wrote has been mentioned here 

anyway let me say this about bad chip music: the coin flip sound is the cowbell of chip music. In a very bad way. that and the sound of a game boy starting up. if i hear either of those two things, i'm getting skeptical of your track real fast.

i love talking about chip music, bad or good, but really, there isn't any more of an abundance of bad or good versions of it than any other genre on this earth. thought i'd just add that.

but i do fully support talking about bad in order to understand whats good. excellent way to go about it. i just wouldn't want to witness a hatefest. waste of time.

/twocents

[s0]

overuse of arpeggios and cheesy melodies are two of my least favorite chiptune cliches

also this

So we get a bunch of people trying to brute-force their way to a full sound, which almost always leads to a stuffy and lopsided mix.

i feel people often overload their tracks with information just to show off ("OMG HE ACTUALLY MADE THAT ON A SID CHIP??!!!!"). the "wanky guitar solo" of chip music.

[Player 3]

Arpeggios: The first sign of bad chiptunes.

[Jay Tholen]

overuse of arpeggios and cheesy melodies are two of my least favorite chiptune cliches

also this

So we get a bunch of people trying to brute-force their way to a full sound, which almost always leads to a stuffy and lopsided mix.

i feel people often overload their tracks with information just to show off ("OMG HE ACTUALLY MADE THAT ON A SID CHIP??!!!!"). the "wanky guitar solo" of chip music.

I totally know what you mean, but I think if someone fills the pattern up skillfully it can still sound decent. Take RushJet1's NES stuff as an example.

[keoni29]

Arpeggios: The first sign of bad chiptunes.

Due to hardware limitations the arpeggio was used for blending two notes or more for chords. It gives quite a nice effect when not overused.

[Brother Android]

Arpeggios: The first sign of bad chiptunes.

Yeah, this strikes me as quite an overgeneralization... the equivalent of saying "breakbeats: the first sign of bad electronic music". Arpeggios are a tool which can be used for good or for evil.

Of course, i say this as someone who indulges in more than a few arpeggios...