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[ChevyRay]

Also, read the forum rules while you're here.

PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE UNTIL YOU'VE AT LEAST POSTED AN INTRODUCTION IN THE OBLIGATORY INTRODUCE YOURSELF THREAD.

Nobody's going to believe you can keep a remarkable promise like that if you can't even do something as simple as following this board's very reasonable standards.

[Quick-n-Dead]

Anyways, some advice:

* being a dick to people who have more experience than you in the field you're trying to get into = not a great way to start networking

And people being assholes is not a good way either.

People talking about red flags and other bullshit does no one any good.

Instead, people should be giving advice and helping by point people in a direction and NOT cutting down people like my team and I.

This is going to happen, and even if the first one flops or the second, I personally plan on continuing along.

Being that I am a veteran, I tend to tell people like it is.  If that's being a dick so be it.  At least I have a clear conscious about it.

I believe in honesty at all cost, absolute integrity and true, real loyalty.

I will never make a promise that I cannot keep.

Whether this company makes money or not, at least we are trying to do something.

To be honest, with this economy, many people are losing jobs left and right, jobs getting cut.  At least there is a chance that we could make money by putting in a lot of hard work.

[Quick-n-Dead]

Also, read the forum rules while you're here.

PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE UNTIL YOU'VE AT LEAST POSTED AN INTRODUCTION IN THE OBLIGATORY INTRODUCE YOURSELF THREAD.

Nobody's going to believe you can keep a remarkable promise like that if you can't even do something as simple as following this board's very reasonable standards.

I apologize as I did not see that thread.

[Colonel Mustard]

And people being assholes is not a good way either.

People talking about red flags and other bullshit does no one any good.

Quite the opposite, red flags and this "other bullshit" is to warn people that it's a risky startup, and not a conventional one either. To me it seems most people in this thread have been keeping a serious attitude, which they should be considering it's a serious matter.

I'd recommend you see it as constructive criticism rather than attempts to shoot you down. After all, the response to this thread is quite different from the usual TIGSource attitude.

[ChevyRay]

You should apologize for a lot more than that.

Alec (a global moderator here) just gave you a list of seriously helpful advice, after you'd posted against the forum's rules, and then you proceeded to call all Derek's (the experienced game developer who RUNS this place) pointers "bullshit" as well?

The fact that you're still even here after all this shows how gracious and honest these people are, and willing to help. I'm actually quite impressed at their responses and I hope you pick up a thing or two from them, because they're great guys, and great game developers. In just about any other game dev community, you'd have already been kicked.

[Quick-n-Dead]

And people being assholes is not a good way either.

People talking about red flags and other bullshit does no one any good.

Quite the opposite, red flags and this "other bullshit" is to warn people that it's a risky startup, and not a conventional one either. To me it seems most people in this thread have been keeping a serious attitude, which they should be considering it's a serious matter. I'd recommend you see it as constructive criticism rather than attempts to shoot you down.

Voice of reason.

[sarcasm start]There is risk just getting out of bed in the morning.  Maybe I shouldn't get out of bed as I may stub my toe.  Yet, each of us get out of bed anyway and continue on with our daily lives.[/sarcasm end]

There is no doubt that there is a risk in starting a business, let alone a gaming business.

However, and like I've said the last few replies, I will not make a promise I cannot keep.

I came here looking for team members to help on a project that possibly could make money for everyone involved.  We are not looking to compete with the big guys, and we have a solid plan of where we want to go with developing a game.

The reality of it is that we realize that there is a chance that we will put in a bunch of hard work and not get anything, but we aren't going to let that stop us from doing it.

We do have contingencies that will still make money from developing a game, regardless if it is a flop or not.

The other reality of it is that we are needing more members on the team to achieve our goal, hopefully sooner rather than much, much later.

The best advice that someone could give us right now is either joining the team or pointing us in directions where the "business" part of the team can see examples of things that will better guide us.

[Derek]

Someone's going to join a team because either they'll get paid, the team is great, and/or the project is great.  So either you demonstrate that you have one or more of those things, or you accept that you're going to have a hard time finding people to join your team.  That's about all there is to it, really.

[sarcasm start]There is risk just getting out of bed in the morning.  Maybe I shouldn't get out of bed as I may stub my toe.  Yet, each of us get out of bed anyway and continue on with our daily lives.[/sarcasm end]

Naw, it's more like:

"There's risk climbing Mt. Everest.  Maybe instead of just throwing caution to the wind and trying to climb and asking people to join me because I'm determined, I should listen to experienced climbers and try learning the ropes on some smaller, less risky mountains first."

Obviously this is not what you want to hear, and what you don't want to hear is bullshit from an asshole... but I'm really just trying to be honest with you.

 

[John Nesky]

Resolve, motivation, honesty, and integrity are all pretty important things in independent game development, and I do not doubt that you have them. I'll even buy that your team has a lot of experience.

That does not change the fact that the offer you have made is very unappealing to everyone in this community.

Try posting concept art or something. "FPS with an RPG flavor" doesn't give us much to get excited about. Do not be secretive, or you will not fit in here.

[Quick-n-Dead]

Someone's going to join a team because either they'll get paid, the team is great, and/or the project is great.  So either you demonstrate that you have one or more of those things, or you accept that you're going to have a hard time finding people to join your team.  That's about all there is to it, really.

[sarcasm start]There is risk just getting out of bed in the morning.  Maybe I shouldn't get out of bed as I may stub my toe.  Yet, each of us get out of bed anyway and continue on with our daily lives.[/sarcasm end]

Naw, it's more like:

"There's risk climbing Mt. Everest.  Maybe instead of just throwing caution to the wind and trying to climb and asking people to join me because I'm determined, I should listen to experienced climbers and try learning the ropes on some smaller, less risky mountains first."

Obviously this is not what you want to hear, and what you don't want to hear is bullshit from an asshole... but I'm really just trying to be honest with you.

 

The guys on the team so far, feel we can do a small demo.  Our programmer is confident along with our 3d guy.  Our sound engineer is along for the ride and also believes it along with our business guy and myself.

So, we are confident we can do it, but we also realize that it's not going to compete with the big guys out there like EA, Activision, Sony and Microsoft.

There are small game developers out there like Grin, whom I know a couple of.  I even know a couple guys at NovaLogic.  I may even be able to get an investor that I know in the next couple of months, I just have to seriously talk to him one on one.

We aren't looking to climb Mt. Everest, which is why we are looking at creating something small, but very polished.  I realize that a lot of guys that come here and post the nearly the same things I've said, and tried to make a game that competes with the big guys.

The first thing we want to do is make money of course, but we're not even wanting to compete with the big guys out there.  A nicely tuned demo, maybe a game release and get some small sales on it and we've got money in our pockets.

There are no illusions with us.  We know a game will either flop or not.  If at first we don't succeed, keep trying because at some point we will succeed.

[Quick-n-Dead]

Resolve, motivation, honesty, and integrity are all pretty important things in independent game development, and I do not doubt that you have them. I'll even buy that your team has a lot of experience.

That does not change the fact that the offer you have made is very unappealing to everyone in this community.

Try posting concept art or something. "FPS with an RPG flavor" doesn't give us much to get excited about. Do not be secretive, or you will not fit in here.

We've not truly decided on the game nor the game engine yet.  But, we do have an idea on the game engine we are wanting which should be robust enough to handle anything that we come up with.

We are mostly looking at an FPS though mostly because the competition with anything in the RPG world is overwhelmed by games like Morrow Wind, Silk Road, WoW, Everquest and some others.  RPG's take years to develop.  A single player FPS demo we can do.

And, we don't have an artist yet.  We have some areas covered, but as you see we are lacking.

[John Nesky]

But, we do have an idea on the game engine we are wanting which should be robust enough to handle anything that we come up with.

That right there is exactly the sort of statement that worries us. Robust engines are particularly hard to make, and no engine supports everything.

[Quick-n-Dead]

We're looking at 3d Game Studio A7.

[John Nesky]

Oh, ok, didn't realize you were planning on using an existing engine. That's cool. I haven't heard of that one, though it seems to have an active forum, which is a good sign. Unity is pretty popular around here.

[Quick-n-Dead]

From what the guys are telling me, it's pretty easy to use for n00bs, but good enough for the big guys.  It's not an Unreal Engine or even Torque, but it will be good enough for us to start out on.

[ionside]

While you may imply and assume that I will put a military type structure to it, you couldn't be further from the truth of the matter.  The point is that I want to assist in building a company, one that will be profitable for everyone and have fun doing so.

I'm sorry, I did assume a military structure only because you offered boot to ass kicking and ementioned a military background.

I really do wish you and your team the best on your project. And most people here would prefer to hear you succeed rather than fail. Please just take at least some of what people are saying here as advice. And not trying to knock you down (well, can't speak for everyone of course ).

[Quick-n-Dead]

No one wants this project to succeed more than I do.

Let me tell you why...

1.)  My wife and I's bank account overdrawn.
2.)  Fired for doing my job correctly back in April, wife was laid off in may.  I'm now working a part-time delivery job.
3.)  Wife still doesn't have a job
4.)  Both of our vehicles in serious need of repairs.
5.)  Electricity is about to be shutoff.
6.)  Our rent is overdue.
7.)  Our water is about to be turned off.
8.)  And we're about to lose our phone/internet/TV.  Since I only work part-time, my employer only calls me in when there is a delivery to be made.  With no phone, it's going to be very difficult to get called in to work.

What I mean by putting boot to ass, it is meant that I am a motivator.  And as you can see, I have a lot of motivation to make this work.

[brog]

Sounds like you could do with a lower-risk project than game-development.  My approach so far has been to make stuff in my spare time while doing other things, and hope that when I've finished something decent I'll be able to sell enough to go full-time (or at least proper part-time) with game development.  If you're going to go full-on into it, you'll need money from somewhere.

[Alec]

1.)  My wife and I's bank account overdrawn.
2.)  Fired for doing my job correctly back in April, wife was laid off in may.  I'm now working a part-time delivery job.
3.)  Wife still doesn't have a job
4.)  Both of our vehicles in serious need of repairs.
5.)  Electricity is about to be shutoff.
6.)  Our rent is overdue.
7.)  Our water is about to be turned off.
8.)  And we're about to lose our phone/internet/TV.  Since I only work part-time, my employer only calls me in when there is a delivery to be made.  With no phone, it's going to be very difficult to get called in to work.

What I mean by putting boot to ass, it is meant that I am a motivator.  And as you can see, I have a lot of motivation to make this work.

While this sounds pretty bad, its not going to help you attract people to the project. I know I definitely wouldn't want to be putting in a lot of work for no money upfront on a project where the lead might have all their essential services shut off at any time.

I mean, its hard to impossible to work on a collaborative game project with someone who has an unreliable internet connection, never mind someone who might not have any internet connection, never mind water to drink.

[Quick-n-Dead]

While I am the lead on the project, there is still another guy above me in the chain who is going to take over if I lose everything.  I talk to him daily and keep him informed, so he's complete aware and will take over if/when I lose my internet connection.

[Alec]

While I am the lead on the project, there is still another guy above me in the chain who is going to take over if I lose everything.  I talk to him daily and keep him informed, so he's complete aware and will take over if/when I lose my internet connection.

I'm imagining Hideo Kojima saying that, and its sounding weird...