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[Doliprane]

Really thank you for the explanation

It's always easier to wait when you know what's happening

Keep up the good work, I have faith in you 

I still keep my save sleeping till the patch

[12LandsBoundlessSpace]

While I see the difficulties in adjusting to "everyone" and I certainly acknowledge the good things that may come out of harsh conditions - I personally did not buy the game even though I'd love to explore its world because I have no spare time to grind. And that "Karma lost on every death" is just that: grinding. If you have fun to do so, feel free. I won't.

I don't want to try to keep this argument going, but I'd just like to point out that the karma gate levels are designed so that if you're going the right way, you will almost never have to grind. The only exceptions I can think of are Garbage Wastes to Shoreline (because of the toll, which can get very annoying), and one other later area (which I won't mention here because of spoilers). In general, the karma mechanic was implemented well. If you really are at a point where you're having to continually grind, it probably means that you moved onto a more difficult area before you were ready. Each region is designed to be massive and intricate, and it's expected that you'll spend some time in each one.

TL;DR: Trying to rush the game makes the karma mechanic no fun because you are meant to take it more slowly, learn, and appreciate the environment.

It is also used for redirection, particularly at the point where you can either grind to go the painful route through Shaded, or go through Garbage Wastes much more easily.

[tortoiseandcrow]

I imagine those playtester sessions, where someone from the outside comes, plays the game for a few hours and then tells the devs what he/she thinks about the game.Most playtesters probably told them that they did not like the timelimit and/or the karma mechanic as is, i would asume because playtesters are just a cross-section of the normal people which gave the game a usermetacritic rateing of 7 out of 10 and a critic rewiew of 6 out of 10,after release.

And then one of the two(probably James) thought after those testings where over:

"They are no gamedesigner.They do not know how the game is ment to be played.They just do not understand this experience i am providing for them.They just do not know whats good for them.But they will thank me when i stay strong and bring the game out exactly as it is know.I cant compromise my artistic view".

Your imagination is incorrect. If you read this blog thoughtfully, you would know that karma system is a direct result of the player feedback, created to reward surviving players even if they don't make a lot of traditional "progress" in a cycle. It also (by my interpretation) fundamentally changes the type of challenge the game gives from "pass through" to "learn to live in", which puts better emphasis on both survival mechanics and AI.

Teod is absolutely correct. I don't believe that the karma system works exactly as intended, but it was a considered and deliberate choice that was in direct response to observed player behaviour. When I pointed out that karma showed up in the last third of development, I wasn't arguing that James and Joar somehow "smuggled" the mechanic in. Rather, I was attempting to head off some rather ungenerous commentary by other posters who were suggesting that the game simply was not supposed to appeal anyone who didn't like the karma system. Clearly, given there were people who were ardent supporters of the game long before the karma system was introduced, this is not the case. But it's not like James and Joar introduced the mechanic in some bizarre act of bad faith.

[Lucs]

Just a quick question, do you have to explore every zone to finish the game? I've only reached Shoreline through Garbage Waste because I couldn't deal with Drainage System (Jesus guys it's nearly impossible to complete from the right side  ) and I would be super sad if I missed a single room of this game.

[Manray]

Just a quick question, do you have to explore every zone to finish the game? I've only reached Shoreline through Garbage Waste because I couldn't deal with Drainage System (Jesus guys it's nearly impossible to complete from the right side  ) and I would be super sad if I missed a single room of this game.

No, you don't need to go to every region to complete the game.

[Doliprane]

By the way I wonder if it's a good idea to go to the Citadel after the Wastes ? Shouldn't I turn back to the Wastes and find another way to somewhere else or am I on the "right" path ?

[Crispy75]

By the way I wonder if it's a good idea to go to the Citadel after the Wastes ? Shouldn't I turn back to the Wastes and find another way to somewhere else or am I on the "right" path ?

That is a "hard" route.

[Doliprane]

By the way I wonder if it's a good idea to go to the Citadel after the Wastes ? Shouldn't I turn back to the Wastes and find another way to somewhere else or am I on the "right" path ?

That is a "hard" route.

Ouch. I got to Citadel from the East... I found a couple of shelters before I stopped, waiting for the PS4 patch.

At the same time, I really had a hard time in the Wastes on Vanilla, and I don't think I'd like to go back there and go full West  (or another way ?) . I found the way full West but didn't manage to pass the gates...

As I glow in the dark thanks of a bad choice in the Wastes maybe it won't be that difficult,especially with the patch ?

[JLJac]

Update 535

Just steam-rolling through the list of little things for this next update. It's gonna be pretty substantial, apart from new game modes there's actually a bit of content sneaking in as well, but I don't know how much I want to give away!

Several little weird uninteresting problems show up as a side effect of splitting the game into two modes that you can switch between ~ for example I had the Threat Music from single player unexpectedly show up in multiplayer, etc etc etc.

In the game I actually call it "arena mode" right now rather than multiplayer, because it's possible to play by yourself as well and just brawl against critters. Don't know for sure where the name is going to end up, but I think "Arena" might be good - I would call it "Sandbox" but that's gonna be the name of a specific Arena mode, so it gets a little complicated!


(lame multiplayer footage of me running around alone - but yeah, you get the idea, slugcats and everything else thrashing around like mad in a little room. And yeah, I think that centipede killed a vulture  )

Also, what might be very good news from a technical standpoint! Previously I had loaded all the sounds of the game on startup (a clunky setup, but we had to do it that way so James could feed it external sound files) and that soaked up a loooot of RAM. So I decided to try to load the sounds through Unity instead ~ and that actually worked. So now the game is lazy-loading the sounds, and RAM is doing much better. But the REAL good news is that this enabled me to call the elusive Resources.UnloadUnusedAssets(); method, which just drops everything in RAM that's not being used. I couldn't do that before because Unity didn't recognize all of my hack-loaded sounds and ditched them, but now after a few tweaks it worked out, and *that* truly worked wonders for the RAM issue, it seems. So, all fingers crossed, the RAM crash demon might finally be purged, and people won't any longer get crashes every time something slightly graphics intensive loads. Touch wood, fingers crossed, but seems to actually be a big step in the right direction!

In difficulty mode news, things are coming along. Red is pretty much done, and is extremely hardcore. I went ahead and made Red not save maps on death just like old Rain World 1.0, because some people mentioned missing that feature.

The main thing about Red is eating meat:



Animation is perhaps not quite there yet, but you get the idea. Don't want it too gory, but would rather just suggest the concept through the movement of the characters. Might take a little tuning!

Yellow is coming along and is generally easier in a bunch of ways, some of which are specifically targeting karma-related frustration. Some people want to see the game but just can't deal with the punishment, and Yellow is supposed to go in that direction without necessarily scrapping huge game mechanics. So just a little easier to steadily progress and see new pretty backgrounds, without being beaten into the ground too brutally for a random slip. It's still going to be rain world of course, with lizards hunting you and stuff like that, but just a little bit more approachable.

So all in all, good progress!

[Wolvered]

All of it looks amazing! 

I wonder how red is hardcore, since making lizards a food source makes the game easier, especially in some areas with a lot of lizards and very few food, and if you say it's extremely hardcore, I'm already scared 

Overgrown centipedes are the scariest enemies in rainworld, especially in filtration, but by killing a vulture, they just reached a new level of scary 

[Teod]

Speaking of little things to update, there is one small, gripe that I have with the movement:

When crawling through a tight space, pressing more than one directional button slows you down. For instance, if there's a tunnel that wiggles up-left-up-left, it would be logical for it to be passable simply holding Up and Left, rather than having to press those buttons in order. But if you try to do that, slugcat slows down. A lot. And in branching corridors it's even more needlessly punishing, because pressing second direction too early slows you down by grinding on a wall, and pressing it too late slows you down by going in tail first.

In general it makes navigating mazes noticeably more awkward than it should be. It can be argued to be a skill element and pressing right buttons at the right time probably should be more efficient than a more lenient input, but I don't think the difference should be that noticeable outside of life and death situations.

[Manray]

All of it looks amazing! 

I wonder how red is hardcore, since making lizards a food source makes the game easier, especially in some areas with a lot of lizards and very few food, and if you say it's extremely hardcore, I'm already scared 

Overgrown centipedes are the scariest enemies in rainworld, especially in filtration, but by killing a vulture, they just reached a new level of scary 

I want overgrown flying centipedes.

[Crispy75]

Really exciting stuff
My already-limited game time has become even more limited so I suspect I'll be using Yellow Mode to finish my playthrough (that is, if you can switch difficulties part-way through?)

[crankykong]

I imagine those playtester sessions, where someone from the outside comes, plays the game for a few hours and then tells the devs what he/she thinks about the game.Most playtesters probably told them that they did not like the timelimit and/or the karma mechanic as is, i would asume because playtesters are just a cross-section of the normal people which gave the game a usermetacritic rateing of 7 out of 10 and a critic rewiew of 6 out of 10,after release.

And then one of the two(probably James) thought after those testings where over:

"They are no gamedesigner.They do not know how the game is ment to be played.They just do not understand this experience i am providing for them.They just do not know whats good for them.But they will thank me when i stay strong and bring the game out exactly as it is know.I cant compromise my artistic view".

Your imagination is incorrect. If you read this blog thoughtfully, you would know that karma system is a direct result of the player feedback, created to reward surviving players even if they don't make a lot of traditional "progress" in a cycle. It also (by my interpretation) fundamentally changes the type of challenge the game gives from "pass through" to "learn to live in", which puts better emphasis on both survival mechanics and AI.

Teod is absolutely correct. I don't believe that the karma system works exactly as intended, but it was a considered and deliberate choice that was in direct response to observed player behaviour. When I pointed out that karma showed up in the last third of development, I wasn't arguing that James and Joar somehow "smuggled" the mechanic in. Rather, I was attempting to head off some rather ungenerous commentary by other posters who were suggesting that the game simply was not supposed to appeal anyone who didn't like the karma system. Clearly, given there were people who were ardent supporters of the game long before the karma system was introduced, this is not the case. But it's not like James and Joar introduced the mechanic in some bizarre act of bad faith.

Y but most player do not like the combination of timelimit and karma mechanic in the game, which you can see in almost every review outside this forum. Its obviouse that they wanted to correct some player behavior and wanted to "force" the player to play the game the way they intendet it to be played. But most players outside this forum do not want to play the game like the devs want it to be played! Which you clearly can see in most reviews.

If you get payed,for example, from some customer to build his/her house as an architect, you cant just build your own dream house, you must listen,at least to some degree,what the customer wants,orelse you will soon make no money anymore because nobody is buying anymore from you.If you are extremly lucky your and the customers wishes are identical, but thats almost never the case.So you have to make compromises , at least to some degree.

The only exception would be if the product you imagine is so perfect that it is flawless and everybody likes it the way you have decined it.And thats clearly not the case in rainworld as you can see from al the mediocre til bad reviews.

And now they changeing every aspect of the game,from (local) multiplayer to new creatures and items... except of the two things which most player hated the most, the timelimit and karmamechanic!
They just do not want to acept that most player did not like til hate their 2 most beloved gamemechanics.

I personaly like the karma mechanic in general but i hate the timelimit , most others hate both and some love both, so why not let the player decide which gameplaymechanics should be active , if you as developer are not able to balance those two mechanics in game ,so that they are not hated by most players outside this forum/filterbubble?

[jprosk]

The main thing about Red is eating meat:



Animation is perhaps not quite there yet, but you get the idea. Don't want it too gory, but would rather just suggest the concept through the movement of the characters. Might take a little tuning!

Joar. You're a fucking god. I cannot WAIT to try bloodcat insanity mode.

But most players outside this forum do not want to play the game like the devs want it to be played! Which you clearly can see in most reviews.

This is not true.

[Sein]

most players outside this forum do not want to play the game like the devs want it to be played! Which you clearly can see in most reviews.

I joined this forum Because of Rainworld, and I find the game just fine the way it is. A game is what the devs want it to be.

You dont go telling Bethesda "Hey, We dont like these mechanics for skyrim. I want you to do this instead because Im the customer."

Its kinda like going to the grocery store and telling the store manager you want him to stop selling this item and to sell another item instead, because Item A is terrible. Suggestions are accepted of course and appreciated. But a Dev ultimately has say in what goes in the game I think.

That being said, suggestions and concerns are being heard as far as I can see. Just not to the extent of completely changing the game because a few people specifically do not want a certian mechanic or two what so ever.

[Crispy75]

If you get payed,for example, from some customer to build his/her house as an architect, you cant just build your own dream house, you must listen,at least to some degree,what the customer wants,orelse you will soon make no money anymore because nobody is buying anymore from you

What if, and this might be a radical idea, you make something because you have a creative urge and you enjoy the process of creation. Nobody (except the worst kind of cynic) decides to become an artist for the money. This isn't "Call Of Murder Part 8"; focus tested to death and sold to billions. It's a quirky, personal art project. Don't like it? That's fine. I doubt J&J will mind.

[Schoq]

Must be great living life identifying primarily as a 'costumer'

[jamesprimate]

bumping all of this for the new page. joar has been a CODE MACHINE these past weeks, and im really excited for yall to see the new content. 

Update 535

Just steam-rolling through the list of little things for this next update. It's gonna be pretty substantial, apart from new game modes there's actually a bit of content sneaking in as well, but I don't know how much I want to give away!

Several little weird uninteresting problems show up as a side effect of splitting the game into two modes that you can switch between ~ for example I had the Threat Music from single player unexpectedly show up in multiplayer, etc etc etc.

In the game I actually call it "arena mode" right now rather than multiplayer, because it's possible to play by yourself as well and just brawl against critters. Don't know for sure where the name is going to end up, but I think "Arena" might be good - I would call it "Sandbox" but that's gonna be the name of a specific Arena mode, so it gets a little complicated!


(lame multiplayer footage of me running around alone - but yeah, you get the idea, slugcats and everything else thrashing around like mad in a little room. And yeah, I think that centipede killed a vulture  )

Also, what might be very good news from a technical standpoint! Previously I had loaded all the sounds of the game on startup (a clunky setup, but we had to do it that way so James could feed it external sound files) and that soaked up a loooot of RAM. So I decided to try to load the sounds through Unity instead ~ and that actually worked. So now the game is lazy-loading the sounds, and RAM is doing much better. But the REAL good news is that this enabled me to call the elusive Resources.UnloadUnusedAssets(); method, which just drops everything in RAM that's not being used. I couldn't do that before because Unity didn't recognize all of my hack-loaded sounds and ditched them, but now after a few tweaks it worked out, and *that* truly worked wonders for the RAM issue, it seems. So, all fingers crossed, the RAM crash demon might finally be purged, and people won't any longer get crashes every time something slightly graphics intensive loads. Touch wood, fingers crossed, but seems to actually be a big step in the right direction!

In difficulty mode news, things are coming along. Red is pretty much done, and is extremely hardcore. I went ahead and made Red not save maps on death just like old Rain World 1.0, because some people mentioned missing that feature.

The main thing about Red is eating meat:



Animation is perhaps not quite there yet, but you get the idea. Don't want it too gory, but would rather just suggest the concept through the movement of the characters. Might take a little tuning!

Yellow is coming along and is generally easier in a bunch of ways, some of which are specifically targeting karma-related frustration. Some people want to see the game but just can't deal with the punishment, and Yellow is supposed to go in that direction without necessarily scrapping huge game mechanics. So just a little easier to steadily progress and see new pretty backgrounds, without being beaten into the ground too brutally for a random slip. It's still going to be rain world of course, with lizards hunting you and stuff like that, but just a little bit more approachable.

So all in all, good progress!

[Finbonne]

This update has me so excited!!!  This is extactly the things the game needs to take it to the next lavel