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[Soulliard]

I figure this comment will fit here as well as anywhere else...

We've been going off the same list of characters for a while, now, with only a few additions. I think its a pretty good roster, overall, but I think it's time we took another look at it. Circumstances have changed since the project was started, so the roster may need to change a bit as well.

So far, nine characters are programmed (at least partially) and permitted. They are all great iconic characters with diverse move lists. Without a doubt, they are all going into the final game. These characters are Xoda, Naija, Turner, Trilby, Nikujin, Liero, The Golden Knight, The Dwarf and Iji.

Lyle, Gish, Sexy Hiker, and Barkley have not been worked on much, yet, but they ought to make great characters, too. There's a lot to build their movelists on, and they're all classic characters. I'll admit that I had my doubts about Sexy Hiker, but Zaratustra's proposed movelist convinced me that he should make a great addition to the roster.

Quote and Lameza are indie classics awaiting permission. If we can get permission, they will definitely be in the game.

Gomez, Ip and Guy Balding are from unfinished games. It's hard to say whether they ought to be included until the games are actually complete. I'm worried about Gomez in particular. From what's been previewed, he doesn't have any attacks. All he can do is run, jump and shift dimensions. All characters can run and jump, and shifting dimensions isn't applicable to Indie Brawl. I'm worried he'll end up like Tim from Braid- there's just nothing to build a move list off of.

Curly and Balrog, like Quote, are awaiting permission. While I still have hope that they will be allowed, it's obvious that getting permission for Cave Story characters isn't easy, and there would be pretty strict guidelines for what they could and couldn't do. Plus, I kind of like the idea of sticking to one character per game. So even if we get permission for them, they might work better as support characters.

Akuji still doesn't have permission, and I'm not sure what we want to do with him. I think he was mostly included on the original roster (from before I was involved) because he was in a piece of Oracle's concept art. Getting permission may take some time, due to the language barrier, so I'd like to know if there's still enough support for the character to include him.

Cabadath has a lot going for him. He would probably be a blast to play, and he's an amazing character with a great attitude. On the other hand, he's pretty obscure, even within the indie gaming community. Also, if we institute a one character per game policy (which might be a good idea), he may need to go. Although, technically, he and Trilby appeared in different games (from the same series).

Shotgun Ninja is on the roster more as an homage to Cactus than anything else. I'm worried he's a bit too obscure, and doesn't have much to build a movelist on. Maybe a better way to reference Cactus would be to add a Cactus stage, with elements from all his games.

[Yellowboy]

In my opinion, I feel that there are too many Cave Story characters like how there are too many Mario characters in Super Smash Bros. To be honest, Balrog doesn't do a whole lot but jump around and maybe shoot a projectile. The dark clone of that guy found in that level before the 'catmobile' boss (as I dubbed him) seemed much more attack-oriented than Balrog. If "Final Smashes" were included in the game, I'd be more willing to accept Balrog as a character for his ability to be changed into "Balfrog."

Curly as a standalone character seems odd, too. It would be ridiculously difficult to not make her into an altered clone of Quote and her attacks are limited to whatever weapons Quote already can have. My suggetion is to just tie her to Quote's back to have an "Ice Climbers" feel to it, but more awesome. A "final smash" (again, if included) would have to be a Double Spur laser blast.

The sprites for Quote, yes, are already mostly done, but having Curly strapped to him would seem much more acceptable to the user, in my opinion, but otherwise, we'd be having lots of trouble with clones.

[Soulliard]

Curly's already got a distinct movelist typed up, so I'm not worried about redundancy. It's actually fairly different from Quote's.

The idea of her as a support character, tied to another character's back, is a good one (this isn't the first time it's been suggested). If we don't include her as a main character (and I can see both sides of this argument), she'll certainly be support.

[William Broom]

I really love Akuji the Demon, but I'm not sure if he would be a good fit for the game. He's not especially well known and he doesn't have a huge arsenal of moves, so we would have to invent some ourselves.

I also agree that we should avoid including any characters from unfinished games.

[sergiocornaga]

I really love Akuji the Demon, but I'm not sure if he would be a good fit for the game. He's not especially well known and he doesn't have a huge arsenal of moves, so we would have to invent some ourselves.

It's not that small! If I remember rightly, he can already turn into a bat, a cloud and shoot fireballs...

[battlerager]

It's hard to say whether they ought to be included until the games are actually complete.

Well, I'd personally vote for not including them (yet).
It's always possible that the main character (and his abilities) are changed somehow before release, and we can still implent them once the respective game is out.

I kind of like the idea of sticking to one character per game.

While it is a nice idea, I don't think we should limit ourselves like that. I know this is not Smash Brothers, but they didn't stick to one character per game, either.
There were way too many "Mario" characters though, so we should definitely avoid focusing on one game too much.

Akuji

Well, I heard of him even before I really knew what "Indie Games" means, so I suppose he's a classic character. I have no idea what his moves are, though.

Cabadath has a lot going for him. He would probably be a blast to play, and he's an amazing character with a great attitude. On the other hand, he's pretty obscure, even within the indie gaming community.

I think Cabadath would be a very unique and fun character.
As far as I know, almost everyone that knows (and likes) Trilby knows Cabadath.
He's certainly one of the most iconic character of the series, only second to Trilby himself.

Maybe a better way to reference Cactus would be to add a Cactus stage, with elements from all his games.

I agree with this.


On the subject of Curly and Balrog:
As long as we get permission and she is not too clone-y, I'm all for including Curly.
Balrog might be a bit too much (too many characters per game?), and we'd have to make up a lot of moves.

He's certainly iconic, but he'd probably work better as an assist, if at all.
(He could yell "Huzzah!" and charge forwards, then disappear)

I think we originally wanted to include him because we wanted to have a slow, heavy brawler. We might have to look for someone else, but Im sure we will find something.

[Yellowboy]

If I were to really include a bad guy from Cave Story, it'd be the scientist. He's got waaay more moves and other things than Balrog and is a much more fitting villain.

There's also one I've mentioned before, but I'll draw him up before I ask about him for you guys.

[Soulliard]

Tell us your suggestion before you start doing any work on it. There's no sense in wasting your time if the character won't work.

[mokesmoe]

We should have Deceased Crab say huzzah for Balrog!!!

But on a more serious note, if we put a limit on characters from games, I think it should be at least 2.

[Lucaz]

Has anyone actually contacted Nigoro about Lemeza? I checked in the permissions thread but saw nothing.

[Fuzz]

Gomez, Ip and Guy Balding are from unfinished games. It's hard to say whether they ought to be included until the games are actually complete. I'm worried about Gomez in particular. From what's been previewed, he doesn't have any attacks. All he can do is run, jump and shift dimensions. All characters can run and jump, and shifting dimensions isn't applicable to Indie Brawl. I'm worried he'll end up like Tim from Braid- there's just nothing to build a move list off of.

But Phil Fish wants Gomez in the game!

i totally forgot about this.
yes, i am granting permission.

gomez dosent have a chainsaw, but he should here.
just because.

and yeah, he's too tall and skinny here.

And also... CHAINSAW

[Yellowboy]

Tell us your suggestion before you start doing any work on it. There's no sense in wasting your time if the character won't work.

Gah too late.



His name is Neo. He originated as a spin-off of Megaman called "Rock Man NEO," and would later become "Perfection NEO."

Still kind of "iffy" about his sprite, the style is rather hard, and I'll redo this when I'm not tired. I'd just like an opinion, here.

I've had permission to work on stuff with this guy from Andrew Dickman for a long time. This guy's game is unfinished, too, but the script features lots of weapons to use. Think Samus but with more swords and a molten-iron whip.

I guess I should also add that he has a "rage mode" (poorly named) where he is purely strong melee attacks. His voiceovers become sharp cries of static. If there were "Final smashes" here, this would be it.

[Fuzz]

Tell us your suggestion before you start doing any work on it. There's no sense in wasting your time if the character won't work.

Gah too late.



His name is Neo. He originated as a spin-off of Megaman called "Rock Man NEO," and would later become "Perfection NEO."

Still kind of "iffy" about his sprite, the style is rather hard, and I'll redo this when I'm not tired. I'd just like an opinion, here.

I've had permission to work on stuff with this guy from Andrew Dickman for a long time. This guy's game is unfinished, too, but the script features lots of weapons to use. Think Samus but with more swords and a molten-iron whip.

I guess I should also add that he has a "rage mode" (poorly named) where he is purely strong melee attacks. His voiceovers become sharp cries of static. If there were "Final smashes" here, this would be it.

A character from an unfinished game based on a flash animation based on Megaman? That doesn't sound like anything fit for inclusion in Indie Brawl.

[Soulliard]

Has anyone actually contacted Nigoro about Lemeza? I checked in the permissions thread but saw nothing.

I think someone sent an email (in English). I ought to try contacting them again.

But Phil Fish wants Gomez in the game!

So hopefully, when Fez is done, there will be enough to build a good movelist off of. If not, he can still be a support character.

Yellowboy: What Fuzz said. This is why suggestions need to be reviewed first.

[Fuzz]

But Phil Fish wants Gomez in the game!

So hopefully, when Fez is done, there will be enough to build a good movelist off of. If not, he can still be a support character.

I'm pretty sure what fish meant was that Gomez should be in the game one way or another, based on screenshots he's shown, and also he should use a chainsaw even though that's not actually in Fez.

[medieval]

I think Gish would be a good fit for the next character.

[Soulliard]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I've made up my mind.

Balrog will be removed. There's no need to limit ourselves to 1 character per game, but 3 is a bit much.

Shotgun Ninja will be removed. SN is a mini game, and there are more memorable characters out there.

Gomez, Ip and Guy will be removed, for now. They may be back on the roster when the games are actually complete.

Akuji will stay. He may not be the most popular character on the roster, but I've been convinced that he'd still be a good addition.

Cabadath will stay. He's one of my favorite characters, and I think he'll be a great addition.

Curly... there's enough material to build a movelist with, but I don't think it's a great movelist. I really like the idea of her as a support character- I think that's where she would fit best. I'm still on the fence about this, though.


This leaves 17 characters on the roster. As more games get released, that number will probably go up a little. This also leaves a little more room for other characters to be added. I think the Blue Knight from Castle Crashers would be a great addition. He is well-known, iconic, fits in a fighting game and has a neat gimmick (freezing).

You might remember that I'm also a strong proponent of adding Karoshi and Kaltos (Spirit Engine 2) to the roster. Others haven't agreed with me on this, but if anyone's had a change of heart...

[KennEH!]

Speaking of Castle Crashers, why not Alien Hominoid? Multiple guns and a knife, I think it could work out well.

[Hideous]

Actually, Fish did say that we could include Gomez if he had a yellow chainsaw.

Not sure wether he was joking, but it sounds swell to me.

[Soulliard]

The issue with Gomez has nothing to do with permission. The problem is that Fez isn't complete, and a lot could happen between now and its completion (and it's always possible, however unlikely, that the project is never actually completed). And when it is completed, Gomez may not have the potential for a good movelist.

And giving Gomez a chainsaw is a bad idea. It has nothing to do with Fez, so the only people who will understand why he has it are a handful of tiggers. Besides, the game already has a saw-wielding maniac.

KennEH!: Alien Hominid is cool, but I think Castle Crashers may be more well-known.