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[Mhaine]

while you were arguing i signed my steam account for the DOTA2 Beta. gg

I did it an hour ago. Was I too late?

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback.

hahahahahahaha

ahahhahahhahahahaaahhhaahaa

hahahahahahhahhahahaaaahahaaha 

this, folks, is why "e-sports" will never be taken seriously.

Thank you for insulting me unnecessarily and showing that you do not know about Brood War or SC2 or of plenty of other games that have had, and still have a competitive scene and tournaments.

[s0]

That was just honest feedback. And I meant taken seriously by people outside of their respective scenes the way regular sports are.

[Mhaine]

That was just honest feedback. And I meant taken seriously by people outside of their respective scenes the way regular sports are.

True. What are the signs of getting taken "seriously", if I may ask so? Is it money that make sports get taken seriously; or is it drama, or, is it the requirement of some degree of availability for improvement that makes some better than others? Is it perhaps, the ability to get fans and sponsors?
For e-sports have all of that, and more.

[AshfordPride]

Fuck, I was at work, did I miss the beta?

the HoN and LoL communities.

and

[dEnamed]

Text

Really not sure if you aren't just trolling, hard. But since I give people the benefit of the doubt: League of Legends indeed DOES have a racist problem. Don't believe me? Well could an official employee convince you? -> Lookie, lookie: http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=285221
That's what the community has become to be associated with. Does that mean I just called every single one of them a racist? Please... don't  be that way (Hint: I did not). There are also references for the other associations. Most notable on Tigsource (oh noes), the assumption that Steamusers are considered self entitled idiots. Are they? Doubt it. But that's what they've become associated with.
Just like X-Box gamers having a bad reputation, Counter-Strikers being known as cheaters, bankers being known as greedy money vampires and politicians as crooks. Does that mean they all are? Nope. Does it even matter whether they actually are? Not in the slightest. Its reputation and nothing else.

Concerning the Skill Argument:
Maybe it's another one of those "lost in translation" things that do creep up. I do not mean to say that those games require zero skill. Just that the core principles are easy to pick up. Compare Mobagames with let's say modern Flight Simulators, can you honestly keep a straight face and say they (Mobas) require a lot of skill to play in comparison?
One you can play with just the mouse, the other one requires you to memorize 200+ Hotkeys and a Starting Checklist to even get off the ground.
Keep in mind, we're talking about Skill Requirements, as in you need to grasp a certain amount of concepts to play the game. I'm not talking about playing it well at all.

Concerning the Beta:
Just search for DotA in Steam, follow the link to dota2.com and sign up. The reason I recommend doing it through steam is that you don't have to login.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback. There is always a reason for that kind of talk

99% of the time someone rages at you like that its cause THEY made a mistake and its easier to blame your "shitty ass noob baddie teammates" than it is to admit it was your mistake.

[dEnamed]

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback. There is always a reason for that kind of talk

99% of the time someone rages at you like that its cause THEY made a mistake and its easier to blame your "shitty ass noob baddie teammates" than it is to admit it was your mistake.

Also that.

[Dragonmaw]

I do not think people who hate such games just detest the skill requirements.

What skill requirements? I'm sorry but Moba Games aren't exactly hard games. Anyone that has ever played your average RTS Game or RPG will do just fine. So again, what skill requirements?

I never got a lot of trolling when I was into LoL and I played for a decent amount of time. Either people just liked me more or (more likely) I didn't suck as much as people who get trolled as much as you seem to be indicating. And saying that DoTa-likes don't require skill is silly. If you don't think they require skill, then that's clear evidence of you never having hit the skill barrier where people stop trolling.

in the 600 or 700 LoL games I have played, I'd say someone was trolling someone else in 90% of the games

[AshfordPride]

Concerning the Beta:
Just search for DotA in Steam, follow the link to dota2.com and sign up. The reason I recommend doing it through steam is that you don't have to login.

Thanks, I've found it.

in the 600 or 700 LoL games I have played, I'd say someone was trolling someone else in 90% of the games

Dragonmaw, if we discount all the Brazilians who were telling people to 'got to hell', it probably is in the low tens.  

[s0]

True. What are the signs of getting taken "seriously", if I may ask so? Is it money that make sports get taken seriously; or is it drama, or, is it the requirement of some degree of availability for improvement that makes some better than others? Is it perhaps, the ability to get fans and sponsors?
For e-sports have all of that, and more.

I don't doubt it. I think the reason why competitive gaming isn't taken seriously by the general public (and even some gamers) is the communities, which I already hinted at.

I was a semi-professional skier for several years and as far as I remember it was generally frowned upon to be a douche to people who are worse than you. There was drama, sure, but even the worst of that was pretty tame compared to what I experience in videogames regularly. Every competitive game I've played/tried so far has lacked that aspect of sportsmanship, probably due to internet anonymity.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy (friendly) competition, what I don't enjoy is getting yelled at by nerdraging 13 year old boys. If you don't mind that, that's fine but I do. I also fail to see how telling someone they "suck" or calling them a "faggot" is useful feedback at all. I'm pretty sure most new players are well aware of the fact that they're not good at the game.

[Nix]

I do not think people who hate such games just detest the skill requirements.

What skill requirements? I'm sorry but Moba Games aren't exactly hard games. Anyone that has ever played your average RTS Game or RPG will do just fine. So again, what skill requirements?

I never got a lot of trolling when I was into LoL and I played for a decent amount of time. Either people just liked me more or (more likely) I didn't suck as much as people who get trolled as much as you seem to be indicating. And saying that DoTa-likes don't require skill is silly. If you don't think they require skill, then that's clear evidence of you never having hit the skill barrier where people stop trolling.

in the 600 or 700 LoL games I have played, I'd say someone was trolling someone else in 90% of the games

Maybe I just don't watch the chat very much

[shig]

What are the signs of getting taken "seriously"

Good sportsmanship.

you probably havent seen the mvc2 era of trash-talking players

[s0]

PROTIP: just because it used to be worse, doesn't mean it's fine now.

[Mhaine]

@dEnamed
You are attacking me while I am just agreeing with you and certainly not trolling. I must say that I do not like the fact that you have used derogatory language to insult several online communities (of which I am a part of, since the only way I can purchase legal games in my country is through Steam and I have had no trouble using their services so far) and that you are still continuing to say that you have been only joking, while your language obviously betrays your conscience and makes you look no better than the people you seem to be against.

What are the signs of getting taken "seriously"

Good sportsmanship.

Play, or watch SCBW and SC2.

True. What are the signs of getting taken "seriously", if I may ask so? Is it money that make sports get taken seriously; or is it drama, or, is it the requirement of some degree of availability for improvement that makes some better than others? Is it perhaps, the ability to get fans and sponsors?
For e-sports have all of that, and more.

I don't doubt it. I think the reason why competitive gaming isn't taken seriously by the general public (and even some gamers) is the communities, which I already hinted at.

I was a semi-professional skier for several years and as far as I remember it was generally frowned upon to be a douche to people who are worse than you. There was drama, sure, but even the worst of that was pretty tame compared to what I experience in videogames regularly. Every competitive game I've played/tried so far has lacked that aspect of sportsmanship, probably due to internet anonymity.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy (friendly) competition, what I don't enjoy is getting yelled at by nerdraging 13 year old boys. If you don't mind that, that's fine but I do. I also fail to see how telling someone they "suck" or calling them a "faggot" is useful feedback at all. I'm pretty sure most new players are well aware of the fact that they're not good at the game.

Which was why I gave some games as examples, like SC:BW and SC2, where people have the same ideas as you do. You should not assume that the games you have played in DotA were competitive, since they were clearly not, and should not be, as there is a lot of trash talking in soccer or basketball when you are playing with people you do not know in a non-competitive environment as well. Indeed, the very notion that you have played games that lack sportsmanship shows that you have not played the games that are widely regarded to be part of esports.

[dEnamed]

Text

No offense, but you might want to take a chill pill. No one is out to get you. If you felt personally offended by someone making a joke about the reputation of communities, fair enough. Nothing I can do about that however. For one, the issue with the communities reputation is prevalent. It's there. (For giggles: Google "Heroes of Newerth Community", it doesn't take long for the topic of bad community reputation to creep up).
Most important of all however, I'm not exclusively talking to you. If you'd like to notice, several other people voiced their opinion about it, to which I replied with an excerpt of my own opinion.

[Dragonmaw]

I'm hoping (in vain) that DotA2 does something to make itself stand out from DotA

[Trevor Dunbar]

I'm hoping (in vain) that DotA2 does something to make itself stand out from DotA

If they changed too much it just wouldn't be DoTA anymore.

Just like in HoN how they removed the runes at 1 minute 12 seconds into a match and removed the need to go to the secret shop. Then on top of that they added their own piss-poor imbalanced / not-very-fun-to-play-against heroes.

[Dragonmaw]

I'm hoping (in vain) that DotA2 does something to make itself stand out from DotA

If they changed too much it just wouldn't be DoTA anymore.

Just like in HoN how they removed the runes at 1 minute 12 seconds into a match and removed the need to go to the secret shop. Then on top of that they added their own piss-poor imbalanced / not-very-fun-to-play-against heroes.

If I want to play vanilla DotA, I'll play vanilla DotA.

I just want more out of the genre. Say what you will about LoL (good) and Demigod (bleh) and Rise of Immortals (barf), at least they are trying something different than just literally porting every hero and item over.

[deathtotheweird]

early previews of Dota2 mention Valve's unwillingness to mess with the Dota classic gameplay: http://pc.ign.com/articles/114/1143122p1.html

so Dragonmaw, shut up. Dota2 is gonna be Dota and you are going to either like it or eat a dick!!! or like it and eat a dick too I don't care. just eat a dick!!

[Nillo]

I want DotA 2 to be DotA. If they change nothing of the core gameplay, I'm going to be satisfied.

The issue here is that DotA is chained to the Warcraft 3 engine, which is ridiculously outdated by today's standards and lacks many features we have come to expect from modern games. DotA 2 will be its own game, so Valve can make it work exactly the way they want it to work instead of trying to make it fit in someone else's engine.