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[lowpoly]

Good news for BlitzMax users, Max3D was released today and is open source:
http://bmx3d.googlecode.com

You have to compile the dll and it looks like it has some pretty hefty hardware requirements, but hopefully someone will come along and optimize it for older systems. It's an early version so some features are missing aparently, but it's a great start for people who already have BlitzMax or Blitz3D users like myself who are looking to upgrade to something more modern.

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

That's weird, there's no mention of it on www.blitzmax.com

[Hideous]

It has _extreme_ requirements

Why do I need a GeForce 8800 to run that?

[moi]

You have to compile the dll

lolwut?

or Blitz3D users like myself who are looking to upgrade to something more modern.

What's the interest for B3D users?

[lowpoly]

What's the interest for B3D users?

well it's a couple things. Switching to BlitzMax in general has some inherent benefits. Hardware accelerated 2D and cross platform development are the biggest ones (for me) but there's some nice updates to Types and a few other smaller things. Of course as a B3D user, you're shit out of a luck doing 3D in the thing (not including the community 3D stuff), which is why the release of Max3D makes upgrading to BlitzMax more attractive for people like me.

And, it's free.

[lowpoly]

That's weird, there's no mention of it on www.blitzmax.com

the front page is kinda useless in general, it's mostly community submitted stuff. You have to check the worklogs and forums to keep on top of stuff, since that's where Mark posts.

[moi]

And, it's free.

Except for the whole "buying blitzMax" stuff.

Anyways. Where can I find some documentation about bmax3D and its features?

[nihilocrat]

In my campaign to wrap the world in Python, I might eventually (okay, I'm probably too lazy...) try to see if I can wrap the underlying C++ API in Python. 

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

the front page is kinda useless in general, it's mostly community submitted stuff. You have to check the worklogs and forums to keep on top of stuff, since that's where Mark posts.

See, this is what makes me feel that blitz is, unfortunately, a dead language. Much like Latin, Esperanto or Welsh, there are plenty of people still using it but most of them are capable of using a different language.

I'm an ex Blitz3D guy, and before that Blitz 2D and Blitz 2 (on the Amiga). However I think it lost its way at some stage and has floundered for many years, with an increasingly grumpy userbase.  I'm always sad to say, but I don't miss using it.

I think BlitzMAX and Blitz3D are great in their own way, and some of my best friends do amazing things with BlitzMAX.  I hope the BlitzMAX 3D library works out well for the community, and I'll be interested to see where things lie in another twelve months time.

[lowpoly]

See, this is what makes me feel that blitz is, unfortunately, a dead language. Much like Latin, Esperanto or Welsh, there are plenty of people still using it but most of them are capable of using a different language.

I'm an ex Blitz3D guy, and before that Blitz 2D and Blitz 2 (on the Amiga). However I think it lost its way at some stage and has floundered for many years, with an increasingly grumpy userbase.  I'm always sad to say, but I don't miss using it.

I agree with you to some extent, B3D has def run its course and BMax, while def making some strides, still feels like it's behind a step or two. However, I'd argue that having an engine and language that isn't cutting edge and is so simple to work in, is the reason why it still has a huge following. Def not the 'next best thing' kinda people following but rather, guys like me who at some point wanted to dabble in game programming and found an option that suited their skill level. Now granted, that was like 6 years ago for me and I should probably move on to something more modern, but personally, I'm yet to find anything out there that has the learning curve that B3D did for me.

As much as I feel I'm a semi-competent programmer now, every time I start to look into another language it makes my head spin. I'm a huge proponent of 'growing out' of things, be it a language, 3D app, or what have you. I don't have a huge portfolio of work to show for my years using Blitz so to some extent I feel like there's probably a lot more I could do efficiently and creatively in B3D before I'm ready to move on. I get the feeling a lot of people are probably in the same boat.

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

That's the thing, I had a great experience with Blitz2D and Blitz3D, and whilst I never 'shipped a product' with it, I don't regret the time I spent with it.

I'm not necessarily fond of jumping to the next shiny new product either, especially as so many of these ventures are transient projects until the lead programmer graduates and gets a proper job

Personally, I kinda feel that Blitz3D ought to have stuck with Blitz3D, or have expanded Blitz3D to be multi-platform and/or web enabled. DX7 is actually a really nice level of technology to work with. If you look at things like the iphone, psp and even a lot of Wii games, they're using that level of technology. It's easy to author, and easy to work with. However, Blitz always had massive problems with its pipeline, and things like b3D pipeline were amazing but ought to have been closer to home.

You're right though, it's worth using the experience you have and taking advantage of how fast it is to work with Blitz.  Doesn't Blitz3D already do almost all of that for you though?  It might be better to stick with B3D for some stuff - at least it will be playable on most people's machines!!

The high spec focus for BM3D is so stupid!!

Amateur developers really don't have the facilities to make the most out of that technology, and it just limits their userbase to people whom have other things they're more interested in. 

(I loved your work on Enraged Rocket House btw, I think that's perfect use of Blitz3D and also your skillset!)

[lowpoly]

That's the thing, I had a great experience with Blitz2D and Blitz3D, and whilst I never 'shipped a product' with it, I don't regret the time I spent with it.

I'm not necessarily fond of jumping to the next shiny new product either, especially as so many of these ventures are transient projects until the lead programmer graduates and gets a proper job

Personally, I kinda feel that Blitz3D ought to have stuck with Blitz3D, or have expanded Blitz3D to be multi-platform and/or web enabled. DX7 is actually a really nice level of technology to work with. If you look at things like the iphone, psp and even a lot of Wii games, they're using that level of technology. It's easy to author, and easy to work with. However, Blitz always had massive problems with its pipeline, and things like b3D pipeline were amazing but ought to have been closer to home.

You're right though, it's worth using the experience you have and taking advantage of how fast it is to work with Blitz.  Doesn't Blitz3D already do almost all of that for you though?  It might be better to stick with B3D for some stuff - at least it will be playable on most people's machines!!

The high spec focus for BM3D is so stupid!!

Amateur developers really don't have the facilities to make the most out of that technology, and it just limits their userbase to people whom have other things they're more interested in. 

(I loved your work on Enraged Rocket House btw, I think that's perfect use of Blitz3D and also your skillset!)

Interesting enough, it seems like this has been the response so far. There's the folks with experience coding in C++ taking to the release but a large majority of users have voiced their displeasure/concern regarding the new direction. I get the sense that people just wanted Blitz3D 2.0, the same language more or less with some new bells and whistles. I'm curious to see what comes of it, altho yesterday I found about Flow3D, which sounds more along the lines of what I was looking for in the first place.

From my understanding, this was the initial goal but at some point Mark decided he wanted BMax 3D to be a current gen engine and scrapped the idea. I think that explains why BMax is so similar to prior Blitz apps, it would have been the ideal base to build up a new, cross platform low spec engine, but with the flexibility to support higher end tech. I think the community has done a great job filling that gap (Mini3D, Flow, etc.) and I'm betting a lot of people will stick with whats work, like you mentioned.

Funny you mention the B3D Pipeline, honestly it's a large part of why I stick with B3D in the first place. Not a lot of tools are written for 3DSMax 6, let alone work so seamlessly exporting. But since it was never an official product, it took me a long time to really wrap my head around how to use it right. Stuff like that is indeed pretty frustrating and probably offputting for a lot of users.

Glad you enjoyed ERH tho :D that's def one game that could have benefited from built-in, realtime shadows tho, at least from a development point of view

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

I love B3D pipeline!! It's such a nice interface to work with, with the ability to get a realtime preview of your assets - nothing else has anything quite like that. However, it doesn't work with later versions of Max, and it has been abandoned so it will never get updated or maintained.

I miss the days before BlitzMAX came out, when people thought it would be Blitz3D 2.0 right off the bat, and people even thought their code would be compatible but benefit from improvements. Ah, happy naive days! XD

Glad you enjoyed ERH tho :D that's def one game that could have benefited from built-in, realtime shadows tho, at least from a development point of view

Why not buy Shawn Swift's shadow system? That was very powerful, and would have worked just fine. I agree that a proper 'modern' shadow system would be better, but between lightmaps (gile) and sswift shadow system I think B3d was pretty well catered for.

[Galaxy613]

I am also a BlitzMax/Blitz3D user, and also disappointed with BM3D developments.. but thanks a bunch for linking to Flow3D! It looks like exactly what I wanted! :D

...now to find a Lua module..

[lowpoly]

Why not buy Shawn Swift's shadow system? That was very powerful, and would have worked just fine. I agree that a proper 'modern' shadow system would be better, but between lightmaps (gile) and sswift shadow system I think B3d was pretty well catered for.

laziness. For ERH, I didn't have time to learn a new system and get it up and running in time. Afterward, more of the same, I'd rather spend my time prototyping then getting shadows working. Ultimately, I just want a simple command to do it all for me, which is why I use Blitz in the first place Max3D actually has this, which is why I was excited in the first place, but given the requirements, it's basically moot. Just frustrating knowing every other 3D engine out there supports shadows natively...

I am also a BlitzMax/Blitz3D user, and also disappointed with BM3D developments.. but thanks a bunch for linking to Flow3D! It looks like exactly what I wanted! :D

...now to find a Lua module..

cool, let me know how it works out for you, there might be hope still!

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

Sswift's shadow system pretty much works as a single include, and then a single function after that. Super simple to use. 

I'm especially code shy though, so I didn't mind using his code, especially as it didn't introduce any new code to worry about.