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[gimymblert]

http://jezebel.com/gamergate-shits-pants-over-john-oliver-segment-on-onlin-1713058755

So in your view we're not reacting to the massive harassment conducted by gamergate. We've only made that up as a convenient cover for our actual goal which is to...?

There is a great social advantage in being united against a common enemy, regardless of what that enemy is. It strengthens the bonds with others in the group, which results in benefits too numerous to mention. GamerGate is an easy target that can be rallied against for this purpose.

That's the irony of a mouvement formed on the back of personal relation of a woamn gamedev branded as the enemy, well done proving our point.

http://jezebel.com/gamergate-shits-pants-over-john-oliver-segment-on-onlin-1713058755

BY the way the confusion of nillo come from that creator of gamergate taped into the culture who felt left off by game journalism (hint I don't follow them, I don't get what's hard in avoiding them) and who take part in the 2014 /v/ musical who lament "ethics in game journalism", using ire and tropes born against born fropm anita (who would have remain nameless if they didn't explode on her prouving her point) to redirect anger toward who they want. This culture I call the smokescreen of gamergate, they have been manipulated by their creator, and intead of acknowledging they were wrong and find a name for a mouvement that was older than gamegate and have SOME legitemancy, they stuck on their pride and defend the bullshit anyway. Now there is some fragmentation that is still tied to the influence of gamergate like againstgamergate who can't remove the gamergate from their title.

[dancing_dead]

@dancing_dead:

eh, it's not that unusual for nerdy boys to have almost no proper contact with girls and develop some genuinely nasty views on women – sometimes especially fuelled by them actually getting a female friend and trying to initiate a deeper relationship with them and end up getting rejected (and saying they were FRIENDZONED when she was never interested in the first place) and the company of other such cases to reinforce those views

it's almost a cliché and i've seen it happen more than once

yeah, but I wouldn't call those guys exactly smart. socially deluded, perhaps? one doesn't have to look for this no further than 4chan's /r9k/, where this stuff echoes through the ages.
but they're not the big names in front of gamergate, or, well, big names at all.

[Alevice]

Soemtimes I wonder if the harassment and such that has happened is forgotten by people. we ought to have a convient repository of gaming people getting harassed.

[Alevice]

To put it simply, a hostile attitude towards gaming as a hobby will make you a "gamergate target". We don't like people acting like they're above the unwashed masses, is all.

DO you endorse hostility towards an individual that you classify as acting above the unwahsed masses?

[gimymblert]

it's not internet culture it's culture fom internet, sub culture like wizardchan associated and colliding with other culture and the initial value of internet to weird subculture have created a monster, but these culture are minority if extremly visible.

[dancing_dead]

So in your view we're not reacting to the massive harassment conducted by gamergate. We've only made that up as a convenient cover for our actual goal which is to...?

There is a great social advantage in being united against a common enemy, regardless of what that enemy is. It strengthens the bonds with others in the group, which results in benefits too numerous to mention. GamerGate is an easy target that can be rallied against for this purpose.

But isn't this how GamerGate works? There's a strong "united we stand" narrative. There's the common enemy in Evil SJW Reptilian conspiracy. There's the easy target in women who have online presence.

this is the key motivation behind internet "tribalism". people group up in their little tribes, where a view is echoed and all other tribes are viewed as evil heretics. so, for one side you have Evil SJW conspiracy, on the other side you have evil gamergaters, harassing everyone to death. oddly similar, don't you think...

perhaps one should look beyond one's own little tribe to truly make sense of the whole situation...

[Nillo]

DO you endorse hostility towards an individual that you classify as acting above the unwahsed masses?

Not at all. I value politeness and good manners very highly, and I do my best not to insult others. Sometimes I lose my temper but I think I'm getting better at avoiding such situations.

[Dacke]

it's not limited to women as targets, and gamergate as perpetrators

Of course Internet harassment isn't limited to women as targets or gamergate as perpetrators. But women are disproportionately targeted and gamergate is obviously the source of large amounts of harassment.

but they're not the big names in front of gamergate, or, well, big names at all.

figure heads ≠ the movement

This is a misconception you keep coming back to. Most organizations/movements, good or bad, try to put on a civil face when interacting with the rest of the world. You can't simply take that at face value, you have to look at the actual behaviour and opinions of the movement as a whole.

wishful conspiracy

I don't know what world you live in, but hateful mob behaviour doesn't require a conspiracy. You just need hate and people.

[Mittens]

Warning: The following post will be commenting on the original article only.

I am genuinely surprised at how poorly Sunshine has sold, if they are being truthful about their sales figures.  
This article is clearly a vent at the world. They believe (or would like people to believe) they were quenched by social norms and the standards of their players. I can certainly understand being disappointed and upset with a product performing poorly, but I don't think anyone should take this finger pointing seriously, it's not helpful to Tale of Tales or other developers reading.

Instead of pretending a cruel and organised culture has squashed them for their progressive beliefs maybe they could have thought more about why people are unhappy with the gameplay after testing and solve those issues.
Good feeling mechanics and controls are not a burden that hampers creativity and expression, they are part and parcel with the medium itself.

It's like an oil painter saying "I would have been able to express myself much better if everyone would stop insisting I use these damned oil paints to make my oil painting!"

It's far more productive to ignore environmental factors which (whether they exist or not) are completely out of your control and instead focus on succeeding in all the areas where you actually have agency.

There's my 2 cents.

[Dragonmaw]

No more GamerGate talk in this thread. Thanks.

[Christian Knudsen]

It seems to me that unlike games like Gone Home and Stanley Parable, Sunset lacks a narrative hook to pull potential players in. All I know about the game is that you're a cleaning lady in a South American country in the 70's and there's a revolution going on outside, but you're not actually really involved with that in any way. It's just backdrop. That neither describes an interesting narrative nor interesting gameplay. Compare to a game like Papers, Please that also takes the mundane, but manages to place you smack in the middle of both intimate/personal and moral/larger dilemmas and conflicts.

For those that have played the game, does the revolution ever get to play a direct role in the game? Is the man whose apartment you clean involved in the revolution? Do you get to influence him? All I've read is that you can either get romantically involved with him or not -- that's the extent of the narrative. (Sounds like it could've been a visual novel and not lost anything?)

[oahda]

Thanks, Dragonmaw.

Why would they not be truthful about their sales figures, Mittens?

[gimymblert]

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/this-sad-tale-tales-done-making-videogames/?utm_content=bufferc88c5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/22/8826145/tale-of-tales-studio-will-no-longer-make-games-after-commercial

True ToT is back!
They work best at making contrevery that inspire people thoughts

BUT found that  

I saw a few people on Twitter saying they would’ve bought it if their computer could handle it. So I looked at the recommended specs:

RECOMMENDED:
OS: 8.1 64-bit
Processor: Intel Core i7
Memory: 16 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 (4 GB VRAM)
DirectX: Version 11
Hard Drive: 4 GB available space
For comparison, the recommended specs for Arkham Knight:

OS: Win 7 SP1, Win 8.1 (64-bit Operating System Required)
Processor: Intel Core i7-3770, 3.4 GHz | AMD FX-8350, 4.0 GHz
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 – 3 GB Memory Recommended
DirectX: Version 11

DirectX 11? 16gb of RAM?!?!? A GTX 980? What exactly is the Venn diagram between "people who want to play an indie adventure game" and "people who have a top-of-the-line gaming rig?"

That is the "Recommended" specs. And Recommended between games is not the same baseline. What does the recommended in Batman get you? 1080p medium settings?

Also, Arkham Knight is a poor example, seeing how people with recommended specs are getting poor performance.

Sunset Minimum specs:

MINIMUM:
OS: XP 32-bit
Processor: Intel Core i5
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 6970 (1 GB VRAM)
DirectX: Version 11
Hard Drive: 2 GB available space
Additional Notes: IntelHD Integrated Graphics Chips may work but are not supported

Far Cry 4 Minimum specs:
MINIMUM:
OS: Windows® 7 (SP1) / Windows® 8 / Windows® 8.1 / (64-bit only)
Processor: 2.6 GHz Intel® Core™ i5-750 or 3.2 GHz AMD Phenom™ II X4 955
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 or AMD Radeon HD5850 (1 GB VRAM)
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Hard Drive: 30 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX-compatible (5.1 surround sound recommended)

Yah, its higher than Far Cry 4.

My vote is that they’re a vocal minority who are asking for these games.

This game had 3 strikes against it for the mass audience. 1) Indie game with an abstract game/story telling style, 2) Outrageously high spec requirements and 3) $20.

Any one of those things could turn off the majority of the buying public, together, well they resulted in 4000 sales.

[TeeGee]

I actually didn't play it solely because it doesn't run on any of my computers, so there's definitely some truth to it. It's quite poorly optimized.

[gimymblert]

I don't think it's just optimization I truly shuddered in their devlog when they told about the omni present reflection the game had, which is like the graal of even modern gaming AAA, yet they did it ... Problem is that it is integral to their vision

[TeeGee]

Optimization is also not over-doing it with the effects, so there you go .


Also:

Sunset lacks a narrative hook to pull potential players in. All I know about the game is that you're a cleaning lady in a South American country in the 70's and there's a revolution going on outside, but you're not actually really involved with that in any way. It's just backdrop.

Am I the only person on the planet to whom this sounds absolutely intriguing and exciting?  

I get that it could be executed better in-game, but imho the premise itself is absolutely brilliant!

[Mittens]

Thanks, Dragonmaw.

Why would they not be truthful about their sales figures, Mittens?

Because they didnt screen grab thier steam stats and I don't trust anyone.


The game doesn't run? Its starting to sound more like ToT just want customers to pay for the privilege of owning a thing they made.
that's showing diregard to thiet supporters

[Christian Knudsen]

Am I the only person on the planet to whom this sounds absolutely intriguing and exciting?  

But you also make visual novels!

No, I agree. It's an interesting premise. But from what I've heard and read, the game doesn't really do much with it. A premise is just a platform to build upon. It would also sound interesting to me if you as a cleaning lady could influence a man involved in the revolution, but my impression is that the whole revolution thing is just a backdrop that doesn't really influence the narrative nor the gameplay? (I'm still asking the people who have played it if this is indeed the case!)

[Nillo]

Let's do a game jam of house cleaning plus social upheaval games and see who can make better use of this good premise, then!

[gimymblert]

@Nillo
I was thinking the same lol

I'm not sure it is as easy, non traditional theme are difficult to translate within the current design culture, but paper please pull it off so ...

@Christian
I haven't play fully but from the premise it make sense it is the way people describe it, and in fact even in low review it show it works, just not as the reviewer expected (aka traditional entertainement), it's more in line with some literary tradition than the typical high stake mainstream narrative.