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[SirNiko]

tanner: play mgs3, it's the best in the series and also the first in the timeline. 4 is absolute trash for the most part but 5 looks rad.

i can sympathize tho, im terrible at stealth games as well

Seconding MGS3 as a great place to start the series. The fourth one does a lot of cool stuff, but it's small amounts of cool stuff in between impenetrable walls of exposition (and the best parts rely heavily on having played 1-3 and getting the callbacks).

The original PS2/XBox versions of MGS3 have some annoying fixed camera issues. I seem to recall any of the later ports are better for addressing that.

[s0]

yeah you can adjust the camera any way you want in the vita port using the 2nd stick at least (i actually didn't mind the fixed camera in the original, but then i kinda like fixed camera angles in general so  )


the 40 minute (literally!) ending cutscene in mgs4 is one of the most cringeworthy things ive ever seen. it's what happens when you write a multi-part plot without planning ahead at all. i really genuinely like mgs's story other than that tho.

[JWK5]

I am at the point where any FMV/Cut Scene over 5 minutes long and I get annoyed. I hate that games insist on taking you out of the game constantly, if I wanted to watch a movie I'd go watch a movie.

[s0]

hmmm im not sure i can agree with that. i hate long cutscenes in most games (that arent "adventure"/narrative games). but to me MGS (the good ones anyway) is kinda like a full course dinner and cutscenes are one of the courses if that makes sense. im not sure what exactly mgs does differently but it works for me.

i guess the actual gameplay being good and the games' genuinely creative and wacky use of game mechanics for narrative purposes (psycho mantis, the end) really helps haha.

[JWK5]

Yeah, it's more personal preference for me than an outright gripe. I notice it is not so bad when I am watching someone else play rather than playing it myself. I watched my friend beat MGS4 before I had played and beat it and it was interesting watching the clips. When I played it myself, however, it just annoyed me.

[gimymblert]

hahaha I play game in story mode and super duper easy first then jump on the most hard possible
I did that for mgs2 it was glorious

MGS2 is best mgs

I also "play" narrative game on youtube

[gimymblert]

How about we speculate about the next nintendo console, how to stay relevant in the vast sea of change and uncertainty? VR, streaming, mobile, etc ...
If you look a t current console, they kind of feel less like platform and more like terminal, internet access is almost mandatory, constant firmware update, video service integration like twitch and youtube ... the platform is clearly internet itself... there is a push to buy digitally ... Everything get virtualized ... The console itself, in the room, is becoming less relevant ...


But nintendo, whila always surprising, is always predictable in restrospect. Before motion control we had many small game like a wario ware, a yoshi or a kirby that experimented with the idea ... nothing breakthrough until the actual console.

One idea nintendo toyed a lot with recently was nfc or AR, ie physically based game playing, in a sense it make total sense, nintendo resist play over internet for the physicality of presence, while they pay lip service to virtualisation of presence (online play) I can see them running completely in the opposite direction, reinforce concept of physicality and lead game to more interaction with the real world, motion design is already a step in that direction and even streetpass is a kind of online with presence. To have people connect through "transactional" objects. Presence as social connection was always a thing at nintendo hence why the "couch multiplayer" experience, they commit to this idea.

So here is the new concept, a console based on physical interaction of objects, AR alone only provide input, it's not enough to build interactivity, NFC solve a bit of problem with memory giving a loop of input/output, we could imagine object loaded with more sensor to add increase interactivity. In fact that kind of ties up nicely with the notion of non wearable! It makes the console relevant again and move away the trend of isolating people physically. SO the future of nintendo might be toys, smart toys, in QOL or in games.

[SirNiko]

Nintendo's been beaten to that punch by Skylanders and Disney Infinity. Skylanders already has games where you have to swap in and out "Traps" that contain captured monsters, adding a very unique physical aspect to the play.

Nintendo's Amiibo support is pretty wimpy by comparison. They just unlock costumes and other features that could be effortlessly integrated into DLC transactions. I've got a Wii U and I still don't see myself buying any Amiibo figures.

What's a specific example of a game you'd see Nintendo making with that technology? Mario Party with Amiibo and a digital board? NFC blocks that automatically transmit your physical creation to the screen? A goomba made with a converted roomba that runs around your house until you stomp it so you can continue the game on the screen? Speaking about it broadly is great, but ultimately people are going to be won over by the first game to use it in a fun way.

[gimymblert]

There is difference between a whole console based on an idea than on a game basis. Amiibo where plan long before skylander as the hardware was made for that, it might actually have given to activision the idea? need to check date with dev length estimation. And amiibo span many games with an undisclosed amiibo specific game that have been anounce.

But yeah the burden of proof is on nintendo. One failure of motion control from nintendo was to contain all the best innovation and control scheme into mini games, giving the impression it was made for mini game. Hardcore games, while having great implementation occasionally (metroid series, zelda skyward sword, although zelda and okami had some very stupid mistake with pointing).

[s0]

the wii port of okami is unplayable to me. i actually had to buy the ps2 version.

[gimymblert]

yep but that's because of a strange stupid error, I think QA hold the wiimote like a brush not a pen, so when you twist the remote the referential is twist too, for example if you do a side by side motion with the wiimote it's horizontal as it should, but hold the remote a 90° and it's vertical STUPID STUPID implemantation, holding the wiimote like a pen mean you twist your hand going side by side. ONce you get that it's way easier, but as the first move is a single line it make it way harder to lay as the line is the most difficult movement to do with this STUPID STUPID set up.

It's as stupid as the weird pointing in zelda skyward sword which broke the perfect pointing as seen in mario galaxy, metroid prime wii and zelda TP ... Pointing with a wiimote was so underrated, it was the best feature over analog ...

[ProgramGamer]

...Pointing with a wiimote was so underrated, it was the best feature over analog ...

And I would argue that one level above that would be the motion aiming in the 3DS zelda ports, though the 3D effect was sometimes broken by moving the 3DS. Thank god they fixed that in the New 3DS.

Anyways, yeah, Skyward Sword was all around pretty dumb from a gameplay standpoint. Here's to hoping someone does sword combat right with motion controls. Maybe an NX version of Infinity Blade? I'd like that quite a lot actually!

[SirNiko]

The swordfighting in Skyward Sword was probably my favorite part. That and the time-warping desert carried the rest of an otherwise long and tiresome game.

I think Gimmy talking about the bizarre way pointing in menus worked, not the swordfighting. For some reason they couldn't just use the sensor bar? That worked great for the example games he gave. I just don't think relative motion to select an option would ever be superior to pointing at the desired option especially when there's more than one option to pick.

Metroid Prime 3's visor selection menu was another great design, it let you swap the visors ridiculously fast and you just had to think about which quadrant you needed for the visor. They did the same thing for the ship summoning controls, and it really felt fast and natural. Prime 3 could've had no monsters at all and it still would have been fantastic: even simple things like throwing the levers to operate the trains felt good, or ripping off wall panels to get at the circuit boards behind them. I think that kind of intuitive interaction is more in line with the future of gaming than lots of toy peripherals, though the latter is obviously better from the perspective of making extra sales and keeping retailers busy.

[gimymblert]

in fact even the waggle sword fighting in TP make more sense to me now than pushing a button, i'm so underwheilm by sword button now

Another thing in ss is the lack of building on the swordfighting, I mean beyond the bokogobin and the awesome girahim fight there wasn't much exploration beyond match slice angle, in fact other tools like the beetle sto ethe show in usefulness. I admit they have also "shortcut" with the sword in enemy, for example the slime you had to make a slice and it's perpendicular fast to defeat them in one motion, or if you were stubborn and goes without shield because you are hardcore you could defeat deku by "baseballing" their nut back to them with relatively good timing, things that could have been expended and made easier to expend on the sword fighting instead of the casual huge pause after  massive protection (damn i hated those lizzard) so you can retaliate, carnivorous plant where also tedious "wait to kill". I wish they use the stabbing more like against enemy, notably to pick up things on them, imagine an enemy covered in bubble that you could stab like the pumpkin and use as projectile back against him. Also "slice" direction isn't the first time zelda used them, at least in oot the plant could be defeated in two way, by horizontal slicing their "neck" when open to have deku stick or other way to harvest deku nuts.

[JWK5]

I just read a really awesome quote. I don't know why, but it really resonates with me.

“When you don't know where to start,
just go to a place you miss so much.”

[Impmaster]

I'm probably going to the University of Southern California for college next year. Anyone been there/live in the area/live in LA? Got any tips for living in California? I've been living outta the states for a while now, but I visited and California seems hella cool.

[JWK5]

I'm probably going to the University of Southern California for college next year. Anyone been there/live in the area/live in LA? Got any tips for living in California? I've been living outta the states for a while now, but I visited and California seems hella cool.

Every place has its good and bad areas, and every good and bad area has its good and bad areas. Beyond that, figuring out where to find things that are of interest to you and places where you can find others of common interest is a good idea. Basically, do a little research ahead of time (especially in regards to local food and consumable prices) and you'll settle in a lot easier.

[SirNiko]

They did have more than one Ghirihim fight and they were all awesome. I don't know if I'd say they didn't build upon the swordfighting sufficiently. Making the swordfighting too complex could be problematic since it made fighting a lot of basic enemies really time consuming and repetitive. The electric goblins were particularly a pain, and I'd kill them with tools when possible to get out of swordfighting them.

Nintendo Land on the Wii U has a Zelda-themed "mini"game (But a pretty substantial one) that consists almost entirely of swordfighting like in Skyward Sword. That game goes in the other direction, focusing on making the fighting easy enough that killing hordes of monsters isn't tedious, while keeping some significance to the motion controls (eg, keeping the spin-charge mapped to holding the sword vertically).

I think SS's swordfighting would have been improved if they mapped your tools in a way that you could seamlessly pull out a bomb or hookshot in the middle of swordfighting in the way you could use the grapple beam in Prime 3. That would have given them a lot more flexibility to make combinations of tools influence how you disarm enemy attacks and defenses, and fit better with the Zelda theme to boot.

Also, using the bow in SS was actually pretty fun. I liked pulling back the nunchuck like an imaginary drawstring. Having to master the movements to use the tools felt good.

[gimymblert]

Yeah I didn't meant more complex as in complex move, but more useful and fun than slashing mindlessly in one direction once in a while after tedious wait or constant bait (bokoblin), like they use to do in old zelda. I think having different slashing direction for basic enemy is fine and remove the tedious of bokoblin as basic enemy, having various changing pattern but with little invicibility time would be great so it became opportunity, just no wait.

The way enemy handle enemy is through pattern of behavior and multiple step to defeat enemy, each with their own opportunity, maybe you could attack heavy armored enemy from behind only, but they charge at you so you can trick them to a hole, or maybe lure them into a wall so they are stun in a vulnerable state or later with a tool remove their armor or maybe their is an hidden way where you use some powder that freeze them, etc ... enemy use to be exploration and easy "puzzles", now they evolve into straightforward do the designer way instead of improve with designer easter eggs (though in SS running at the big bokoblin shield was a great things, also their reaction to bomb, but it's not as fun as older zelda)

[Pfotegeist]

I wondered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_accidents

How do games compare?

EDIT:
I was mostly wondering if video games had accidents in the production. The lines are blurry when it's not a video game.

Spectator games-sports are incredibly brutal, there are movies about those too.