next »

[Manuel Magalhães]

https://www.twitchinstalls.com

:^)

[s0]

i think gimmy is right about ganondorf. he does look like a bunch of bad ethnic stereotypes mashed together in OOT.

gimmy's also probably right that they changed his appearance after OOT (less pointy nose, greener skin) to avoid racial connotations.

Zelda is supposed to be super cliche classic fantasy. Of course you're going to have an overtly white cast because that was also the case in the stories that it's based on.

ya but a lot of generic fantasy tropes are kinda racist too, so yeah

[gimymblert]

(on my screen at home it's clearly green, at work just ugly grey)

you should probably calibrate your monitor. it's true that it's a warm gray with a kind of green hue. but it's definitely gray

also

"nazi link"

Zelda is supposed to be super cliche classic fantasy. Of course you're going to have an overtly white cast because that was also the case in the stories that it's based on.
The fire temple and gerudo thugs are also not evil. None of the games ever describe them in such a way. They're simply temporary obstacles. The actual evil parts are usually unrelated (in the fire temple for example, ganondorf causes the dragon to wake up but the temple's purpose or islamic imagery is never said to be evil).

[/quote]

I would say that's debatable and has been debate long and large I don't need to add to the fire. Also fantasy story are based on medieval time that weren't devoid of black icons (sheba, the virgin marie, or even greece influence like diane, etc ...) it has been whitewash afterwise precisely for racism. But the criticism isn't that it's overtly white, it's not as the existance of gerudo attest, it's the offensive casting as black and white along positive-negative values. It roots also into orientalism (the gerudo basically). The fire temple is a jail and the home of the dragon, it's its evil lair.

[gimymblert]

TO be fair to zelda too, it also kind of slighly undermine those tropes a bit too, hence why it's more or less have a pass.

Yeah. Anytime you say something like: "This is a REAL woman" or "This is a REAL man" you're basically spelling out what is and isn't acceptable from a specific gender. Which means, if you're not real, then you deserve hatred and shame.

I love how Ocarina of Time handles this.

None of the kids can shut up about being a "real man." And they throw it around in a way that shows that they don't even know what they're saying. The whole first half of OoT is Link talking to people about what a "man" is. Mido says a man is: not a wimp, and has a weapon. Carpenter boss says a man is: not girly, not gay, not lazy, not a low-life, and not emotional. Darunia says a man is: not a kid. Ruto says a man is: responsible and puts her before him.

It's all done so annoyingly and forcefully it feels like a parody.

Then the second half of the game goes through the list and contradicts every manly lesson Link made as a kid. Mido misses Link, the carpenter's boss's son probably committed suicide because of how his parents treated him for falling below their expectations, the strongest foes end up being women who kidnapped some "unmanly" guys who were gay. The Gerudo believe men are all weak. And then the strongest men turn out to be a pretty princess and a 10 year old boy. xB

Such a...magical story.

And Majora's Mask is also a rather feminine story...as it is very veeeery much influences by Inanna's descent to the underworld.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inanna#Inanna.27s_descent_to_the_underworld

 


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=131986229&postcount=7012 (poster is a black woman)

Ganon confirmed to be patriarchy? (I understand why people want koizumi back)

Neogaf is having a "justify your white character" thread with an OP which try to be respectful

Link and Tatl from Majora's Mask.

They had to be "white" to contrast Skullkid and Tael. Since Majora's Mask is all about identity and the many subtle forms of prejudice, it was important to make both Tatl and Link slightly racist and cynical towards others until they learn the main lessons of the game. The characters are suppose to go from seeing everything in black and white, to seeing things more grey after gaining more perspective in life.

When Tatl starts talking about how Skullkid didn't "know his place" it kind of makes you realize that the "good guys" aren't really that good and the "bad guys" aren't really that bad. After all, they both lie and steal constantly. The good guys are just better at getting away with it.

The good guys are in denial about most problems. They have to lie constantly to mask any and all forms of discomfort. They want to keep peace by keeping everyone blissfully ignorant. "If no one brings it up, then everything is okay!" While the bad guys are basically having ridiculous temper tantrum problems due to social neglect and dehumanization.

Basically meaning, the good guys are okay with fake happiness and fake peace, while the bad guys are desperate for some form of genuine acknowledgment and thus stoop to violence.

It's fantasy racism...but it still works, I think. Skullkid initially had blackface. Good going Nintendo. :

Poster is a black woman and I have posted her other zelda analysis prior, don't necessarily "agree" (as in the game as superficial treatment of the matter) but that is nicely put

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=983606

thread worth reading as there is many gems from many angle

IMHO it's not perfect but that's already more than most

[Torchkas]

Ocarina of Time is probably objectively racist. The game just doesn't feel regressive to me because of all of those subtleties.

[airman4]

(on my screen at home it's clearly green, at work just ugly grey)

you should probably calibrate your monitor. it's true that it's a warm gray with a kind of green hue. but it's definitely gray

also

"nazi link"

Zelda is supposed to be super cliche classic fantasy. Of course you're going to have an overtly white cast because that was also the case in the stories that it's based on.
The fire temple and gerudo thugs are also not evil. None of the games ever describe them in such a way. They're simply temporary obstacles. The actual evil parts are usually unrelated (in the fire temple for example, ganondorf causes the dragon to wake up but the temple's purpose or islamic imagery is never said to be evil).

Fantasy is supposed to be white , about whites , written for white , bought by white (and other races , mostly blacks )

[woodsmoke]

Thanks for the feedback Torchkas
Actually I calibrated my monitor recently.
I thought it was the cheap TN-Panel at work.

[ProgramGamer]

This might be relevant to this discussion as well.

[Schoq]

looking at any nintendo 64 game gives me a headache and a bad feeling

[s0]

playing super mario 64 gives me endless joy. to "each" "their" "own""""

[Schoq]

let's disagree to disagree

[gimymblert]

I disagree

[ProgramGamer]

Especially the 64DD.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

i want this in HD

[ProgramGamer]

Or you could make everything a pre-rendered texture if you had the budget.

[s0]

Or you could make everything a pre-rendered texture if you had the budget.

not on the en sixty four thanks to limited storage space

anyway, to reiterate, super mario 64 is the best

[ProgramGamer]

Didn't one fighting game do that exactly though because it was a port of a Jaguar game or sumthin?

Edit: Killer Instinct

[s0]

that game just used prerendered sprites. also it was an arcade port, not a jaguar port.

it's not that you can't use any pre-rendered stuff at all (why would that be a problem, it's just data like anything else), you just couldn't make final fantasy 7 on the n64. capcom did manage to somehow get resident evil 2 on there tho, but they had to use a special cartridge with more storage iirc.

[ProgramGamer]

I'm aware of all that, I was jesting of course. I guess you really do have to be clever on a nintendo console, even these days. (just look at monster hunter 4)

[Schoq]

psx had mostly worse specs but crash team racing looks 100x better than mario cars